Freedoms lost to the 20th century

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

How much freedom was lost to the 20th century?

  • A little.
  • A lot.
  • None at all.
0 voters

America was founded on the belief that each man was perfectly capable of determining his own way in life and that the ruling class should leave him alone to do just that.

They later determined that this credo applied to all humans, except non-citizens, of course.

In 1899 the average american had access to all the currently available drugs, explosives, chemicals, and basically anything he wanted.

One only has to look at old Sears catalogs to see cocaine, herion, and the rigs needed to shoot it.

In 1899 I could take my dog and my game cock to the neighbors place and we could lay our money down.

In 1899 I could be a barber without a license.

In 1899 I could kill the guy that raped my wife.

In 1899 if me and you wanted to have it out in the street, we went out into the street.

In 1899 I could make any type of firecracker I wanted to make, the chemicals and recipes were readily available.

In 1899 I could get a little drunk and shoot my gun in the air, and as long as I went home when the lawman told me to, that’s what I did.

In 1899 I was encouraged to grow hemp for industrial use. (rope, canvas, paper, etc…)

Until the 30’s I could own any military weapon being produced. I could own grenades, mortars, maxim or gatling guns, whatever.

In 1899 I could buy beer at any age.

In 1899 me and my five wives could live in peace.

In 1899 I could braodcast on my radio set without government approval.

In 1899 the government didn’t have a monopoly on milk.

If you can think of some more please add them.

2

I feel like if I were black or female, I’d be really pissed off by this assertion. Since I’m neither, I just find it amusing.

Actually, I will add an item to the list…if I can backtrack four years:

-In 1895, I could beat my wife, and she couldn’t even divorce me for it; or vote to change the law.

Viva la 19th century!

3

I missed the slight to blacks and females.

Blacks and females did find some freedom in the 20th century, nothing wrong with that, but they also lost all these freedoms listed above.

Bullies have lost some freedom since they can’t push those weaker as far. Although now if they got dry gulched the perpetrator would probably get caught, and that works in their favor.

4

Men still beat their wives and the police don’t do shit for it. At most a man might be put away for a month after beating his wife. When he gets out, he can still kill her, so essentially the police have done nothing except further provoke him.

5

I would only agree with you if there wasn’t the “Battered Wife Syndrome” Defense. If a wife is deemed bettered than that can be a defense if she kils her husband. So obviously the police and the legal system are trying, they can’t just arrest everyone because they hit their wife and then put them in jail forever.

As far as freedoms lost, I think when you see our quality of life now, in 2004, you don’t seem to care about some of those freedoms we not really lost, but got changed. Because reading your list, I’m glad that my neighbour can’t do any of those things.

6

500,000 women are battered each year and I been eating them plain all this time :laughing: .

In a free world she’d only get beat once and her male relations would put a halt to it quick.

Instead, we call the police and they effectively do nothing.

So, Ken, what you are saying is that I should be enslaved to your whim(ideals?) and punished for non-compliance.

One of the greatest freedoms amerika has is the freedom to be as big a jerk as you want, as long as you do it at home.

Suppossedly that is the very essence of american philosophy.

But in practice, it’s crack the whip and toe the line.

I’ve got proof, I lost 5 calander years for not complying with the demands of those more powerful than I.

Is our quality of life up or down?

Seen a sunset lately, how many hours did you spend teaching your child how to put bread on the table, when’s the last time you just layed around all afternoon and did nothing because you knew that the food was put up for winter?

If stress is the measure, I’m gonna have to go with down.

I’m thinking the flapper of the 20’s had far more leisure than can be found in a comparable personality today.

Mom can’t stay home and raise the kids anymore she has to get out of the house and produce.

I can’t go to the drug store and relieve my burdens because I have to worry about going to jail.

Instant gratification isn’t fast enough.

:wink:

7

So wait, do you think spousal abuse should be a capital offence?
And again, we are off topic, somehow this turned into a debate on whether beating your wife is right lol.
As far as it being a freedom vs quality of life. I now can look out my window and see civilitation not war and desolation, i think i can give up the right to have my dog fight a game cock.

8

I’ll add to the list:

In 1899 a 20-year-old was unable to vote.

In 1899 NO woman was able to vote.

In 1899 no black person was able to vote because of requirements imposed to deny blacks the right to vote in spite of the 15th amendment

In 1899 blacks and whites were completely segregated due to the Jim Crow laws

In 1899 therefore blacks did not have access to any quality education and therefore most were unable to even read and write

In 1884 women had no rights to own property

In 1899 married women could not claim their own children

In 1899 no couple could be together unless they were from the same race

In 1899 you would be completely unable to vote for who was in the Senate

9

molelove, you’re just splitting hairs here. The fact remains: before 1899, anyone could cut anyone else’s hair any time, anywhere they damn well pleased.

Case closed.

:laughing:

10

I have no beef with folks getting more freedom, I don’t want to oppress anyone, I want to liberate everyone.

You know, freedom, not slavery.

Ken, I can’t see the connection between fighting my dog and my country being invaded.

Except that my property line should be the edge of Anarchistangelville, and anyone that invades it to make me stop fighting my dogs should be repeled as the invading force that he is.

If you accept the maxim: It’s wrong to force a person to do anything that person does not want to do,

Then you have world peace in 20 words or less.

War is about forcing people to toe the line, and once nobody has that authority, then there is no war.

11

I think taking control of a persons life from them should be a capital offense.

Each victim must decide what a suitable punishment is as they are responsible for the consequences of seeking retribution.

Wrong doing on your part does not justify wrong doing on my part, if it’s wrong for you to kill, it’s wrong for me to kill, irrespective of motivations.

So, although I am willing to brave the consequences of taking a life in defense of my own, you may not be.

12

– Netherlands: prostitution is legal
– General culture: Women have the ‘freedom’ to undress, men can’t wait.

– America: Collateral damage justified, government gains more freedom.
– America 2002: Start a war without approval, america gains.
– America 2003: Killing civillians during war without being accountable for it, American gains.

and the list goes on.

13

Comparing any country to the Netherlands is rather unfair, though. They’re so liberal, they make Ralph Nader seem like Barbara Bush.

But yea, I agree with your points. I think the U.S. needs to be burned and raped and rebuilt.

14

I think Amerika has bullied enough folks, it’s not time to burn and destroy, it’s time to stop the bullying.

See the new boss, same as the old boss.

No more bosses.

Reeducate them.

15

I dont think the bosses have any incentive to re-educate themselves. Hehe… hence the burn, rape, rebuild comment.

Checks and balance has been fucked in this country and it’s time to recalibrate the scales of justice.

16

Look here for limited actions.

17

The reason I answered ‘None’ to this poll is because freedoms can’t be lost, only given.

People are born free, and are absolutely free. Free to follow the government, free to disobey it and free to overthrow it.

anarchistangle, I sense that you have a great deal of anger and angst and are either a very hormonal teenager, were subjected to some horrible violence when you were young, had extremely authoritarian parents or more likely all three.

you speak of absolute freedom, why don’t you accept people’s freedom to follow? Why don’t you allow your pets the freedom not to be subjected to the violence of pitting them against other animals? And why do you take pleasure in watching such horrible violence?

America has done some horrible things in the name of grand ideals, but I’d rather keep you, anarchistangle, and everything that has to do with my country as far apart as possible, at least untill you get some psychiatric help.

18

For the record, I find fighting your animals to be abhorent, I don’t fight my critters, in fact, I am too (ir)responsible to allow myself to have pets.

As for my childhood, Dr. Freud, I was adopted into a very stable, if somewhat emotionally distant, caring family. I was never abused, though I was well regulated until 14, then I did what I wanted, pretty much. I had a job, and paid for my own entertainments.

Thanks for the laughs,…

I’m afraid it’s you who need to stop forcing people to comply with your world view, it is you who are mental because you think war is peace, hate is love, and it’s ok to force people to eat spinach (whatever…) because it’s good for them.

I thank you for pointing out that the average has dropped so low in Amerika that I seem the odd ball, what I advocate was the norm in 1890, and the socialists/communists have ruined freedom in the 20th century.

As for giving away freedom, I didn’t do 5 calander years in prison because I felt like giving away my freedom, I was in open revolt(selling Pot) and got squished like the gnat I am.

People should be absolutely free to follow as they please, where they cross the line is when they expect me to follow, too. I can make my own decisions, thanks.

Still amused, thanks.

19

You know what, topics like this get me a little irked. I want to send you to a land where you are someone else’s slave, where everything you say can lead to your demise. Im not talking about public ridicule, Im talking about you saying “Im to tired to work” and then end up strung up by your hands and whipped mercilously. People gripe so much about the inconsequential thing in life, they forget what true freedom is. So someone cant open up an uncertified babershop/salon and jack my hair up…surely the free world will continue.

I know it’s slightly sad to say, but I think America needs a wake up call. And by wake up call I mean a time where our freedoms are taken away, being by infiltration by another country. Then lets see what you think of freedom.

I really dont want jim-bob down the street with a trigger finger to have access to freely bought bombs.

20

Of course the government could just be feeding us what we consider significant gains in freedom, while at the same time removing what we consider inconsequential rights. Then by simpling controlling the media and what people see, hear, and think about, they can continue to remove more and more “trivial” rights, but at a pace so slow that no one would really notice it. Until finally it’s 1984, only delayed 200 years or so.