My parents were both police officers here in Canada for most of my life. If it was just a drunk person who smoked a joint and got a little wacky they would just take you home. I’ve lived on both coasts. It’s the same on either one. Central Canada might be a little different, admittedly, but probably not in all honesty.
He wasn’t just drunk though. He was laying in the fucking road ranting. They probably thought he was trying to kill himself. And I’m not saying he should have been put in a mental institution, but he should have been detained until he sobered up at least.
Dude… shut the fuck up. Did he sound like someone you’d like to go try reasoning with? I’ll answer that for you if you’re not a fucking idiot: No.
In my home US eastern huge megalopolis, it would depend on the police officer and how you interacted with him or her. A mental eval. was certainly possible, but a 24 hour hold would be the likely max unless you made killing others/killing yourself noises. If they knew you, which they often do, home or shelter or drunk tank, depending on their sense of your and society’s needs. Generally the presumption is alcohol is the root if you smell like alcohol which abstract likely did.
It’s all about making good use of taxpayers money. If the person isn’t going to harm themselves they don’t need to be locked up. From the story it sounded like Abstract was laying a field. The cops wouldn’t have even been there if some bitch neighbour would have just asked ‘hey you OK?’ before wasting money and time calling the police. They are not there to take after people being high laying in the grass. It takes away from addressing -actual- crime.
In the OP he is in the road, so for me moving him is just peachy and even peace officery. It’s where the story goes from there and what seems to be the inherent judgment of raving that bothers me.
Abstract, you’ve gotta know where you’re going to get your satisfaction from.
I would suggest getting it by filing that same petition against the asshole who did it to you.
Also, never forget about your right to remain silent. When the cops realize you’re gonna sit there and act like a monk, things generally go easier in spite of how odd it might seem, and when you get to court it’s a lot harder for them to not look like total asses and then you win the case. Boom.
If it was the road and not the field like I thought then I take back some of what I said.
Kind of.
Gobbo knows much, maybe too much for his own good? We share this in common though, so I like him.
Why did Abstract describe himself as having a mental break?
Also, Abstract has said himself that he has experienced schizo states (if I remember correctly). So maybe some of that came out when he was drunk, high, and angry??? It’s possible whoever was around noticed/felt something was a little off about his drunkenness/etc.
Nevertheless, I can imagine the scare of thinking you might be permanently committed to a mental institution. Mental health is complex, and it would be terrible to be committed over a minor break but I can also understand the difficulty of measuring minor/major and drawing the line.
Abstract set this up. Not law enforcement, not the people who called the police. not anyone but abstract. Put yourself in the position of the people charged as “caregivers”. Sure, the cops could have taken him home, or to the drunk tank, or… whatever is available. Just sleep it off, abstract. So they do that, not wanting to create a shitstorm. But abstract doesn’t sleep it off. He goes out on another escapade as soon as he can get loose and either kills himself or someone else. Then the investigation starts… The cops are called to task for not putting him in a mental eval hospital. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The cops who just tried to help without making it a big deal are reprimanded or fired for not doing their job, the PD is sued for whatever damages an ambulance chaser can dream up and everyone is lose-lose. If you’re a cop, are you going to set yourself up when you have someone not acting rationally? If you do, you’re an idiot. So abstract got exactly what was necessary for the protection of not only himself, but everyone else involved. Detained without a right to a lawyer? So sad… What good is a fucking lawyer if you aren’t acting rationally?
To me you are focusing on the police as if people are primarily complaining about what the police did. I certainly am not. The problem, for me, is the whole pattern, which includes whatever pressures the police have on them to make the choices they made, their own attitudes and assumptions and so on, and then from there a 6 day observation period.
As far as the lawyer, the lawyer could be present once he was no longer in the state he was in, and at that point represent his wishes in legal terms. If he was raving and in a mental break for 6 days, I am guessing he would not have viewed the situation the way he did in the OP. (in that case, it really wouldn’t have mattered very much where he was)
6 days can easily cause a job loss, for example.
I don’t see how he got exactly what was needed for his own protection and the protection of others? How do you know that?
I can understand taking him from the road. There he is a danger to himself and others. From there the only justification for a 6 day detention would be he presented clear danger to himself or others. Meaning when he sobered up or calmed down, he indicated violent or suicidal intentions, which would include saying he wanted to go back and lie down in the road.
If he starts saying he wants to go home and is able to answer basic questions, I don’t think there is much legal support for holding him. In the old days that could have been the beginning of an entire life in a mental institution, but nowadays involuntary stays are generally shorter.
Now maybe Abstract left out some important information. Perhaps he hit people every time he could or did talk about suicide. I could be persuaded they acted OK if some new information came in like that.
I see that california has a 3 day hold, though you can, there, demand a writ of habeus corpeus. In the three day hold this is fairly useless since processing takes longer than the hold, but with a six day hold it might make a difference.
I am a little surprised they could do a 6 day hold. The most I was used to back when I lived in the states was a 48 hour hold. I see there have been trends to extend these.
Abstract,
I’d be interested to know what state you are in and how you were after they brought you to the ward. How did you communicate with them? What did you ask for? How were you evaluated? Did you give indications of interest in suicide or violence to others? Did you ask to leave and how did you do this? Etc.
What about where he said he had a mental break? Aren’t you curious about why he would phrase it that way if he was sure it was just belligerent drunkenness? The way he describes his mental state leaves an (imo deliberate) impression there may have been some other kind of instability at play than typical drunkenness.
Doesn’t matter. If once he is on the psychiatric ward he becomes lucid, asks to leave, does not indicate violence to self or others, there is no justification for 6 days. Even if he had a psychotic break. Given that he had drunk beer and smoked pot the justification goes down even further.
And yes, I agree, he is indicating there was some other instability at play, but it doesn’t matter.
In the old days it did, but then policies changed and there is very little you can hold a person for unless they are a danger…etc. Though, as I said in the previous post, I see some trend back to the old way, but a very, very minor one.
That’s true, I guess six days would be extreme regardless unless they had some really good reason to think he was an immediate danger. I didn’t pay much attention to where he said he was held for 6 days. That’s a long time.
Six days IS a long time. BUT… it depends on the facilities and staff available. If the hospital is understaffed, (most are) then you might wait three or four days before a qualified interviewer can get to you. They can agree that you should be released, but that the decision belongs to someone higher up in the heirarchy. So what might have been one day ends up six. It would be great is everyone could simply act through common sense, but in a sue-happy world, everyone has to play CYA. If you were to ask the people who are responsible for the six day hold, most of them would tell you the system is fucked up, but their responsibility is to insure that they can’t be sued for any imagined negligence. Anything less would be stupidity. Anyone, including abstract, has to pay the price of getting caught up in the machinery. When we decide to stop being victims of every fucking thing that happens and suing God and everyone then perhaps people will be able to exercise a measured response. But until then…
As per usual, Tentative blames the encroaching fascism on ordinary people, rather than those pushing it…
I’m Gobbo’s biggest critic, but putting him on a parallel with you is just insulting.
Abstract did they deny you access to a phone call?
Ok I guess I should clarify the situtaion even though it has to me a 50% probability of possibly being embarrassing: Now I say it is 50% probable of being embarrasing because it it would only be embarrasing if what people tell me is a delusion actually is a delusion. I personally belive that it is about 50/50 as to whether what i am thinking is a delusion or not and thus function relatively well in general behaving as if both things are true. The problem i proposed in this thread is what i think is probable: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=182015
…
That said I got to say that I feel as such: I get tired of hearing all the chaotic retarded bullshit thoughts of people all the fucking time and there retarded fucking reactions to my own thoughts and the fact that they continually lie to me and as such I feel a great depression as a result of lack of trust of others and thus the deep feeling of lack of love coming from others though i do feel i believe love for others though it is hard to say when love is not felt returned.
So am i crazy? maybe I don’t know but I maybe a little bit more then 50% certain that i can at least hear other peoples thoughts or pick up images and feelings from them cause i have experienced shit like sensing someone and specifically thus knowing who it was before they walked around a corner or opened a door. And more and quite to often for it to be coincidental. The idea that others can hear my thoughts i find to be less probable and good very well be a result of assumptions made from the experience of hearing others. And further I consider the possibility that perhaps on a subconscious level we are all capable of trading thoughts and I pick up on that and peoples subconscious reactions to my own thoughts in which case though many claim they don’t hear my thoughts on some level they might actually… Ultimately though I see no way of figuring out whether it is true or not. It is kind of like the God question it seems you arn’t prove it true or wrong… so one is left with the best option of believing neither or rather thinking it is 50/50 and as such behaving in a manner hat takes both possibilities into account.
Regardless of whether it is true or not I can further say that part of my raving is simply a result of tiredness of dealing with whatever the fucking problem is. So you know it is possible that on some subconscious level I decided to lie down in the road because i do just want to end it all. But nonetheless after the primal screaming and getting out i felt quite the bit better and had no longer any need of hospitalization and such feel that it was unfair that i was detained without the ability to argue against my detainment. And now I unfortunately feel that I can’t risk talking about my beliefs with people as it may result in involuntary hospitalization as it happened to be what should be my most trusted ones my parents that signed the petition.
And that is where I stand at the moment 
X|
There is a difference between describing and defending. But of of course, you would miss that subtlety in your never-ending whining about “da man”.
Hey Abstract! You got caught up in a conspiracy to deprive you of your rights by encroaching facism! You’re a victim! It couldn’t possibly be that the people responsible for your safety were so busy victimizing a bunch of other people that they got overwhelmed and took six days to get you out of their hair.
If there is a next time, find a private place to let go. going shithouse in public puts you in the system - and getting out isn’t easy once you’re in - as you discovered.