Which is more important? To prove if God exists? Or to prove man survives death? Are the two intrinsically linked? Are they mutually exclusive? As an agnostic, I lean more towards being concerned with human survival than a belief in God, the latter being undefinable, unknowable and irrelevant. This could make me a spiritualist, but I haven’t got to that stage yet. However, if one is truly interested in human survival, it would be worth while to investigate what the dead have to say on this : there’s plenty of discarnate communications to peruse. Failing that, one is left pondering, especially as to what part of one survives and as what.
The question of whether or not God exists seems anything but irrelevant to me, to the question of whether or not we survive after death.
Possibly "survival" is in the consciousness, among them the living word. " In the beginning was the word......" That's textual. Factually, "God" lives through the word. If He couldn't have done that, then He would still be, but we wouldn't know of it. Our knowledge is limited. The love of God, is an oxymoron, visible in every way, and not based on fear. It's based on love. Love knows no fear.
That doesn’t seem to make sense…??
Btw, nothing at all is predictable or consequential without the existence of God. God is the Principle by which there is persistent existence.
“No God” means 100% randomness… which also means no universe at all and thus no survival of anything.
James: the visibility of the linkage, between the non-randomness, and the word, is not faith based for most people. I may be pushing this, but even today, we look for signs, and even these religious debates hinge on convincing people, that love is primary. The smiling child is an example of how we want to sustain this naivete, and I do not mean to imply anything by saying that, only, as parents we ,b even if unconsciously, de-differentiate our early childhood pictures of the world with what we consider as mature behaviour.
Some people contest this by saying, we believe in god , because we basically try to find an excuse not to fear,including our own loss of innocence.
The picture of hapiness has to incorporate the fear and doubt which children growing up have to learn to manage, and it is learned best, when in the secure surroundings that parents can provide.
A child raised in fear, will have a different view of the world, and is more likely to not to have faith.
I’m not sure what wopthedo is driving at. Uccisore seems to think that when wopthedo speaks of survival he’s speaking of surviving after death.
But concerning human survival and religion just consider in human history The Age of Magic and The Age of Religion. Religion sprang out of the age of magic, which was a belief that nature could be magically manipulated in favor of human survival. The age of religion shifted this to the gods, that could be petitioned to aid in human survival,
Thus, with this in view, survival and religion are linked …
But then you will undoubtedly be happy to know that the DHS, lusting to be the Only Son of God, has enlisted many of the corrupted pseudo-christian churches (and others) to help finger anyone suspected of possible misbehavior. So don’t expect that forgiveness just because the sign says “Christian”. Condemnation is stalking you… and salivating.
Christ knew this when he said, “Be cunning like the seprent, but blameless like the sheep”.
ISV - Matt 10:16b - be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.
Btw, I found it interesting and surprising that doves seem to have extraordinary courage while remaining non-aggressive and alert.
I walk up within 2 feet of a dove sitting in its nest and nailed a nail into the tree just under it. The dove merely watch me, didn’t move.
Yes, that’s what concerns me. I shall try to be brief. It concerns my own father’s experience. It took him aback and I myself just can’t explain it. This is an abridged version :
My father had an affair with a woman when in his 50’s. But he decided after several years to end the relationship to preserve his marriage. Two years later, he felt compelled to seek out his former lover, see how she was. When he arrived at where she used to live, he was told she had died a few months back of cancer. He was shattered and returned home extremely depressed, heartbroken.
Some time later after he had managed to come to terms with this tragedy, he tried to live a normal life, carry on as normal. At this time, he was interested in yoga and, as a former teacher, often gave lectures on the subject. After he had given one lecture, he was approached by a man, a person he’d never seen before.
This person said he had come to see him to pass on a message. The message was from the dead woman and the messenger was a well-known international medium. The message was simply to tell him to stop grieving and that she was ok.
Now here’s the puzzling part : my father didn’t know the medium. The medium didn’t know the dead woman. The medium explained that the dead woman had contacted him to pass on this message.
The legacy was that my father, who previously had been an agnostic, saw his life overturned completely and became a spiritualist. Secondly, the medium and my father became close friends. Thirdly, the medium also became close friends with my mother who died earlier this June. Before my father died, the medium had given my mother a message : “Flowers in April”. Nine months later, my father died on Good Friday, 17 April. When I arrived at my mother’s flat for the funeral, there were so many flowers there I couldn’t even sit down! Finally, I have also managed to trace this medium and rang him for the first time last week.
It is still an extraordinary story. My late father was also asked once to pass on a message to the relatives of a deceased person by visiting them at their home, again my father having no knowledge whatsoever of either the deceased nor the surviving relatives.
Life is strange.