God Did It

for all those believing in the judeo-christian god here is a question…

the fertilized egg of a human develops into a ball of cells…how did god do it…

By providing the probability.

can you be more specific saint…

I would have to teach you a lot about God first.
It is similar to trying to teach physics on paper napkins while sitting at a pub in ancient Rome.
Are up for a course in physics just to get an answer?

can you write it on the napkin…

Mr. Saint wrote:

Are you a time traveler, Mr. Saint? :laughing:
It could only be done IF you are indeed a time traveler. I have no doubt about the fact that you could do it…bring many paper napkins.
Did they have p.n. back then? :laughing:
No, I don’t think so. You can’t bring them lest they change the course of human evolution. :laughing:
You might have to write on papyrus.

You have no doubt that it could be done??
Are you serious?
I can’t even explain very simple things in a Science forum that is designed for the purpose and make any progress.
To be believed, one must “appeal to authority” - “the Alpha male syndrome”.
But now, you know without doubt that everything isn’t known today, just as it wasn’t 2000 years ago. Today is just another blip in the line of time, not much different than every other. That means that there is as much misunderstanding going on today as there was back then, the subject matter being the only variable for presumptions.

So if anyone has, by whatever means, discovered the next and next and next step in principles concerning reality, they are, in effect, “out of sync with the timeline”. And thus attempting to explain what is currently confused is no different than trying to go back in time and explain something that was confused, but is now understood.

Progress is SO very slow, because of that “appeal to authority” issue. Those in power are primarily concerned with maintaining their power, not changing anything unless it is merely to ensure more power. A big business does not want a new invention unless they own it. Thus any attempt to explain what isn’t already known and accepted by the authority is not only a bit futile, but at times even dangerous. The real truth is that Man hasn’t a single problem at hand for which he hasn’t a solution at hand. Authority appeal is all that is in the way of harmony. “If They don’t accept it, it isn’t to be believed.” - the motto of every generation.

Given that to be the case, trying to explain anything seriously advanced or complicated (the true nature of God) becomes an almost impossible task - UNLESS the explainer is granted authority status. At a bar, or on a forum, who is granted such authority status? And if they were to challenge orthodox belief, how long would they keep it?

No. One could not sit at a bar in a pub and explain anything of relevance and make any notable progress unless merely with another already largely educated and interested peer (who would no doubt also be an outcast for not going along with authority).

Mr. Saint…

:astonished: I was referring to the fact that you, no doubt, would be able to teach physics to the ancient Romans…if you found a way back there.

No, I do not believe in time travel, at least not insofar as pseudoscience portrays it. I’ll wait until the scientists have confirmed it.

The only time travel I ‘see’ is that which we already do - through our own time and space.
[-X [-(

Well, I wasn’t referring to the time travel issue. And your are right, time travel is an absurd notion in the material sense. One can mentally or effectively travel in time, but not physically or "actually.

If you were trying to compliment me individually for such ability to teach, I thank you, but I only wish that were true. As I explained, it would take far more than I could arrange. Just to get past the “What?!? What do you mean the Earth travels around the Sun? That is just stupid. Everyone knows Heliogabalus raises the Sun each day for us.” part, one would have to pull out some seriously State approved credentials. Never mind having to introduce the notions of gravity, momentum, electrons, neutrons, protons, and field wave equations while trying to keep their interest because of some proposed real application that was obvious to them and deeply desired.

Explaining the simple notion of “affect” and “fields of affect” goes beyond this tavern. The fact that it directly relates to extreme improvements in their lives is well beyond the eyes of their hearts.

Mr. Saing…

Oh, please, do not bring up the alpha male. I’ve had my fill there.

But wouldn’t that depend on whose authority, Mr. Saint? There are the true scientists who have studied physics/astronomy, whatever, (like yourself) and so do have that knowledge and understanding. And then there are the quacks who are only interested in sensationalism and a following who say that there is such a thing as time travel and there is such a thing as alien species, et cetera, without having the evidence to prove it.

*But now, you know without doubt that everything isn’t known today, just as it wasn’t 2000 years ago. Today is just another blip in the line of time, not much different than every other. That means that there is as much misunderstanding going on today as there was back then, the subject matter being the only variable for presumptions.

This goes without saying. No science is an exact science and look how far we’ve come since first discovering fire! We’ve discovered millions or billions of things but we have left to discover zillions. Even for myself, I did not even realize that there may be 200 billion galaxies in the Universe. I mean, that boggles my mind. My mind cannot even comprehend billions. Lol

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. I think that what you are in actuality saying is that science doesn’t work that way. We move in little steps, crawling. It takes a lot of time and energy and evidence before any theory can even begin to be accepted as a possibility. This is of course true. Unless that is not what you’re saying here.

So, perhaps what you’re saying here is that you would not actually be able to explain physics to the ancients. I gave you more credit that I ought to have simply because I lack the understanding of how knowledge actually works. Lol. Aside from that, there is much that we do not understand but many still have more than a glimmer of what we have learned, the scientists that is, do.

Perhaps. But at the same time, don’t you think we have to be careful about automatically accepting every new theory, without investigating and proving it, insofar as it is able to be proved? This is a forum, and there is a science forum here. Everything has a right to be put out here and thought about. Many things were thought to be foolish and were totally unacceptable even a few hundred years ago that today we cannot even understand how they could not possibly have understood back then. But of course we do understand why they couldn’t understand. We’ve just come so far but insofar as how much farther we have to go, relatively speaking, we’ve gotten nowhere yet.

As you said at one time, it’s all about politics…no matter what field we’re talking about. Even religion itself is more about politics sometimes than saving souls. For those in power lol, it’s about control and money and subterfuge. And let’s not forget, we even damn people to a hell if we don’t like them or are unable to ‘see’ them. Lol . I will grant you that perhaps there is much more that is known than those in power are allowing people to know. And that it may be dangerous to reveal. And maybe dangerous not to have revealed.

I’m not sure of that, Mr. Saint, if you’re saying NOW. Sure, we have solutions for many, many things. One hundred years ago we were dying before the advancements in medicine alone. And then on the other side of that coin, we managed to split the atom and dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yes, indeed, we have come a long way. :imp: But as for the rest, I don’t think we’ve already discovered solutions and have answers for everything. I will grant you though maybe more so than those in power are allowing people to know.

The true nature of god…? Are you speaking more in terms of scientific knowledge here or actual belief in the god, as many people actually belief? The true nature of god may be so far from the truth of what a person’s belief is. Ultimate reality is different than ‘belief’. And science is far, far, far, far more amazing and beautiful than any conception and belief of a god that people can imagine or believe in. At least, i think so.

Well, no one of course. Think of the forum as a mini government. I suppose it’s sort of like a democracy but probably less so than even our form of government. We may only speak our truths to a certain extent in here…insofar as we do not insult others. I think freedom of speech is more restricted in here than it is out there. Well, at least in the Religion forum that is true. We can only speak in such a way where respect and reverence is still held as important and is not lost. But respect and reverence for others is important. They’re beliefs may not be, they (the beliefs, that is) may be silly to us and quite unbelievable/unimaginable to us, but then – the human IS more important than destroying their beliefs, don’t you think? Human rights are more important than downing one’s beliefs - but damn - this is a philosophy forum. There are no easy answers. Many here may be philosophers but they also have human minds where the psyche enters in and truth may become obscure. But what is truth… there are many layers to truth, to reality…okay, I’m rambling. :blush:

And I think it’s possible to present and discuss and refute arguments and issues without tearing each other apart. I’m speaking in general here.

unless both of those outcasts were drunk. lol
…and personally, I like the outcasts as I was also one myself, on and off through my years of growing up. It’s a choice that one makes rather than adhere to the mob and herd mentality. As a matter of fact, to my friends in the here and now, at times, I am still an outcast. They cannot conceive of how I bother to waste my time in a philosophy forum and even read books. Being an outcast means nothing if you maintain your individuality and autonomy. After all, we are free…that is, to a certain extent. Actually, no one can take our sense of freedom from us unless we allow it…unless we choose to make it so. There is freedom and then there is freedom. True freedom comes from within - from the mind and the spirit and the heart.

I’m finished. Of course, we know that my thinking may be faulty…I know you will respond to that.

god did it again…a pileated woodpecker baby poops into a fecal sack and the mother takes it away and dumps it…how did god do that…why did god do that…how many years ago did god make this woodpecker…

Temporarily think of God as the unified field theory defined as the one principle that guides every event.
In every minuscule portion of any event, the UFT determines what happens and thus it also determines all that happens.
“God” is defined as the incontestable determiner of all events.

So at the point that physics finally discovers truly 100% accurate laws of nature, the UFT derived from those laws becomes the UFL (Unified Field Law) == God.

So you are really asking “how does the UFL cause a cell to form?”

Are you really prepared for a discussion of the Unified Field Law?
Physicists aren’t.
Microbiologists aren’t either.

saint you are a rascal…i dont want to go on your physics turf…i want you to remain on my biology turf…how did god create and develop life…please stay in biology…if you want i could give you my basic biology course…

Okay Master Tortoise, teach me.
How did Biology do it?

saint i really like what you say…
i will teach you…
we start with your questions…
and by the way biology is the study of life…
biology didnt do it…
ready set go…

Is that sort of a ZenZinger beginning and end to the lecture? :confused:

Or are you waiting (like me) on another question?

Just in case we are waiting on each other…
Biologically speaking, how did life begin?
As I understand it, it takes about 250 proteins linked in the right order just to get the simplest beginning of a surviving DNA which as I understand to be similar to dropping 4 pennies on the floor until they all land heads up and then doing it again until you finally manage to have a series of 250 drops in a row wherein all 250 sets fell with all heads up. So mere probability seems to be highly improbable.

So, by what mechanism were the first 250 proteins formed and linked together to begin the simplest replicating life?

saint–probably life did not start with dna…
please check that protein thing…maybe you mean nucleotides…yes the whole thing is unbelievable…

the chemicals with which humans were to become became electrically charged with the chemicals which were in that primordial souped-up atmosphere…bang…life was initiated. :laughing:

This must be why when I see lightning, I myself become, in a sense, so electrically charged. But really, it all started with that star stuff.

that star stuff is c, h, o, n, p, s, plus other atoms…it may have happened in the ocean…

If humans, as we are today, had ultimately been created within the atmosphere which existed at the time when life began to form on this planet in that primoridal soup, we would not have been able to exist back then. Why is that, turtle?