Some good points there. What god created then created the imperfect god? Is that true infinity? Infinite levels of existence, each creating and affecting the next lowest?
I dunno. If we were indeed created, I wouldn’t think it was accidental anyway.
Hi, I’m a lurker but have come out of hiding to comment on the idea of perfect. What if perfect in regards to god is actually not a state of being perfect nor imperfect, but is just complete? If something is complete it is perfect in the sense that it doesn’t need adding to and nothing needs taking away.
The Bible doesn’t have a concept of perfection for God and for us. I feel that as we started to build buildings, tame animals and crops, we tried to perfect the world around us. We built flood walls to keep back water in a city like New Orleans. However, nature isn’t perfect, and if you look at the Bible, God doesn’t try to be perfect either.
God wiped out all of the people on the earth (except for Noah) as a way to get rid of evil. But God realized this was a mistake.
I know that’s a pretty radical statement, though, but it’s the focus of a new book that explores these themes by Rabbi Jamie Korngold. The book is God in the Wilderness: Rediscovering the Spirituality of the Great Outdoors with the Adventure Rabbi (Doubleday; April 2008). (http://www.GodintheWilderness.com)
Now, we are in a struggle to have whiter teeth, thinner waists and greener grass.
I got an F in philosophy in college before i dropped out. I once asked the professor why would a perfect god create an imperfect world. He said I dont know.
Then i realized later the my idea of perfection was imperfect. Oh, and that was okay.
IF He is seeking companionship in some form or another, it isn’t during this life. Anybody who says He is is lying or deluded–or God deliberately hides from most of us (the chances of which approach infinite to one).
It sounds like you don’t believe in God, but you do believe in the Devil.
Has it dawned on anyone that perfection lies in creating sentience that can never know for sure? A sense of a “something” that keeps the species forever in curiosity? How perfect is a state of not ever KNOWING? The mystery is the perfection. But only if you don’t try to name it.
There is one thing that perfection as a description of a thing’s identity (nature) necissarily implies, and that is: immutability. If the thing in question is in a state of flux then it is only the process of change that can be the perfection and not any perticular moment of that thing’s identity… Only that which never changes can be said to be “perfect”.
Now think about this:
If god is not in a state of flux, or a process of eternal change, then how long did it take God to decide to create everything? Given all eternity, if he was perfect in nature, he would never have been able to “decide” the “moment” would never come unless it was there to begin with… which means everything has existed as long as god has and was predetermined by the nature of God and his conception of it. Making God and everything created by him inseperable and determined… ultimately one and the same. So “god” becomes another word for “reality” or “existence” or what have you.
If god IS in a constant state of change than there is no perfection in any moment of his being, but only in the process of his change… If this process is then a logically determinate one, then god has no “free will” and can not be personal. If, otoh, the process is a chaotic and logically indeterminate one then perfection is change itself, and not any identifiable process or pattern of change. Meaning God is no more perfect than we are…
Anyway… these are a few ideas to explore on this thread…
I believe God may exist, but my comment is about an interactive God, for which there is no evidence, and it makes more sense if He doesn’t interact.
Exactly. The Big Bang is our beginning that we can see, but can’t see beyond. It could be spontaneous creation out of nothing, or the creation of our natural world from the supernatural. We are perfectly isolated.
Mad Man P, you ask some interesting questions. But we humans don’t have the ability to comprehend timelessness or “always been”, via math or any language. If we did we might be able to understand how something could change yet be immutable. To quote Max Planck, “There is no hope of advance without a paradox”.
First, welcome to the party. I like the idea of completeness as perfection. Nothing to add or take away. Still we have the issue of not knowing whether the universe is complete or not. We can create an operational definition of complete, just as we can of perfect or imperfect. The dilemma of saying that all we can sense of the universe is complete, is that we have locked up the conclusion in the definition… But I still like the concept, because it is the perfect answer to a question that has no answer, which I suspect you were saying without saying…
QFT! Right on the money!
‘Completeness’, in every moment, is the indivisable ‘Oneness’ of the (our) universes, and ultimately, a compilation of all Perspectives.