God Killer

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

What is the point of organised religion? What is the purpose of religion anyway? If religion is for the introduction of the notion of God into a person, why is there a need for such organisation and even such devotion? In some cases, why is the devotion desired even ensured with coercion? Why does fear always come into play with the concept of religion? Is religion based on fear? Is the purpose of religion for introducing fear into our lives? Is God about fear? Sometimes, we don’t even need to use physical coercion to define fear. Social coercion is effective in introducing fear as well.

Why must a man go to a temple if he believes in his God? What result is he achieving by going into a temple? Will God be happier? Is God really so inane? What is the purpose of God anyway? So that people can believe in him? Can such a shallow reason really be it? Why can’t a man believe in God in his own space, time and fashion? Is there really a need for organisation? Why must a name and a religion be given to God? Why must a shape and substance be given to this non-physical entity? What makes one think that a person from one religion isn’t really actually praying to the same God as a man from another religion? In this case, is the only difference in the name? If that is the case, then isn’t religion harmful, as it divides men? Nobody has seen God. What makes one think that his God is not the one the other religions pray to?

Why should one believe in God? Why can’t one disbelieve in him? Even if there is a God, and one believes in him, why must one respect him? What does one owe God? If God created men, what made him assume that men wanted to be created? If one regrets his life, isn’t God doing him a disfavour? In that case, isn’t God doing an injustice? What gave God the right to be all-powerful? Why does he have all that power? What responsibilities does God have? What role does he want men to play? Somehow, one has the feeling that all the possibilities that he wants men to play are somehow inane and ridiculous, considering he has absolute power. Why is God called God? Why isn’t he called Dictator, because isn’t that what he is? What does he want from men? Are we his slaves, born to serve his whim and fancy? Why is God so desperate for us to believe him? Why is God so desperate for our love? Has he forgotten about all the other animals? If we are central in God’s plans, why did he create such a huge universe with men playing such a small part in it? Won’t one feel jealous? Is perhaps God hiding a mistress race in a remote part of the universe? If God is so desperate for love, why didn’t he make us love him with his boundless power? Why must he play such silly games with our wills? At the end of the day, everything is still under his control. Did he overlook that fact or something? If he needed some love and so created men with his power, and used his power to make men love him, isn’t he like Eric Cartman playing Lambs? What makes men think that their wills are above the power of God, and that that is why the belief of God can only be affected by other men, as only other men have the ability to influence the wills of other people? What makes one think that all the violence in the world, all the despair in the world, all the unhappiness in the world, aren’t planned by God, with his all-power? If that is the case, isn’t God a menace to humanity? Shouldn’t we then embark on a path to kill God? Is God really our saviour or our destroyer? Anyway, perhaps we can’t kill God, for he is all-powerful.

Why are men so selfish? Why do they associate miracles with God? Why do they invent the concept of a miracle? If miracles happen, why don’t those affected by them wish God to let them affect all of humanity too? If their wish wasn’t granted, why won’t they begrudge God? Why do they feel only happiness for their own selves, and not feel sadness for others? What do they expect out of God? Miracles? Do miracles increase their zeal and faith? Does a lack of miracles make them begrudge God? Why are these men so unbalanced?

Perhaps, he planned for men to loathe him. Perhaps, he planned for me to state thus: Perhaps there is no God after all. I pride my atheism. I pride that I will go to hell should he really exist and that I didn’t believe in him. It will be unfortunate, but sadly, he didn’t appear in my life experiences conclusively and didn’t fare well in my logical reasoning enough for me to believe in him. Perhaps that has always been his plan for me.

I have killed God. Perhaps that has always been his plan.

God lives because men worship power. Men worship power, and that is why dictatorships are ineradicable. The more power a dictator has, the more men worship him. Men are attracted to power as flies are attracted to dung. It is ineluctable.

Religionists! Hear, hear! To love God, you have to hate him! To love God, you have to leave him! To love God, you have to kill him! Love not for his power, but for something else. Love him for anything but his power! Love instead the beggar that crawls in his ordure! Worship him! Worship the entity that has no meaning! Worship the entity that gives nothing to you! That is the only way to love God… Kill him, before it is too late.

2

I am with you all the way my friend. There is no God. And if there is, his name should be Hitler, because he is the greatest descriminator of all. he gives some people great lives and others totally useless painful lives. What is his problem? He is supposed to love us all and be all powerful??? And there is no religion. I am yet to discover an actual real life Christian. People hide behind religion to make themselves more popular. Evil people have used religion to gain more control in civilizations, to make people “fight for the land God gave them” or to not commit sins. But let us face it, people sin anyway. People dont kill you with guns but they are happy to kill you with words and thoughts. Oh, yeah, and I don’t care if i go to hell…cause I am already in hell…Thanks a lot God… :evilfun:

3

This is a common complaint in atheist circles and I see it all the time. To par, its only resolution is in the idea of freewill, which theoretically sets the stage in such a way that those things would be necessary in the plot.

Personally, I don’t care of God exists or not, which inevitably means these four things:

  1. I am not partial to immortality. (I am fine with death)
  2. I am not affraid of suffering or punishment. (in fact, I dig it)
  3. I am not obligated to do anything. (fuck off. No disrespect intended)
  4. Nothing is owed to me. (if I want it, I’ll take it)

These four prerequisites to my existence place God in an awkward standing with myself (believe me, he agrees, we’ve had many long conversations about this) and in a sense I become disengaged from his intentions- I am malleable and indifferent to fate, I have no remorse and cannot be repremanded, I do not fear anything, and finally, I do not expect anything.

I am what the celestial engineers might call a “dud.” No matter what they do, I simply won’t cooperate.

Anyway, about the freewill. When the theist views God’s system and all its innerworkings, including these obvious moral concerns, the rationalization of such things are afforded by the appeal to dualistic and transcendent interpretations of purpose and cause and effect. Which is to say, only when recompense as an effect is assumed to be provided after the cause of one’s moral acts, does one imagine that one’s life is a “totality of moral acts” and that they are investments toward an effect- an award after death.

Essentially the ethical interpretations of “God’s system” are founded on the a priori notion that purpose lies outside the system of existence, is for God, and is used to standardize human behavior on earth. This pans out in metaphysics to resemble true idealism and noumenal reality- the truth as beyond existence. But further implications show that freewill, while possible in such a system, is impossible in an existence; if truth is transcendent then immanent acts are irrelevent.

Ironically only the contrary is possible. Where existence as a totality is an immanent process it can be said that nothing from without the system determines its course, so that all events, while causal, are not purposeful- as that implies a withstanding reason- a ‘cause’ which is not in the system.

Freewill, then, would be the state of the mental mode of existence in its own presence to existence as unpurposeful. For to have a notion of purpose which is not present to all events at all times is to exclude the immanence of reason- to divide events as ‘necessary’ and ‘uneccesary.’ But there is nothing uneccesary, which means, there can be nothing ‘wrong.’

So no, Christian metaphysics is bullshit. There is freewill, but not because a God exists to allow for it.

If there is, then by the absurdity alone of grasping the concept intellectually…God has shot himself in the foot.

God cannot expect, while keeping a straight face, a human being to consider the doctrine of Christianity.

I have killed God, reykdal. Better yet, I am a bridge built over him.

Are you happy? Should I have told you this? Do I come too soon?

4

If one was clever, one would answer to me:

“No, but you certainly couldn’t leave soon enough!”

I was expecting Dunamis or SIATD to at least say this much, but I guess those fellas aren’t as sharp as I thought they were.

5

No, it’s just that I’ve had other matters to attend to today besides following you around taking the Michael. I should be free for a couple of hours tomorrow if you’d like to arrange the resumption of our usual relationship…

6

“Hit me.”

“What!? You want me to hit you?”

“That’s right.”

“How much can you know about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight.”

7

I’ve been in plenty of fights. The more important question is ‘how much do you know about yourself unless you’ve lost a fight?’

8

Alas, I do have the good fortune of having my ass kicked, SIATD.

A lesson in humiliation. Wrestling with a fella too big than I ought, I learned to be more modest.

Thank you, sir, for your concern.

9

I’ve never had my ass kicked as such but I have taken a few sound beatings. The last chap to strike me round the back of the head and put me in a headlock found himself thrown down several steps and charged with assault. (growly voice) Justice…

detrop, when I eventually make my biopic of Socrates in about 6 to 10 years from now will you act in it? You’re certainly sufficiently good looking, you could pass for being Greek with a little make up, I imagine as a Satrean you’d make a good actor and you’ve definitely got the intelligence to make working with you interesting…

10

Hum, who or what started the universe? Sorry you believe you are already in hell. Haven’t you anything to be grateful for? Doesn’t any person or activity make you smile?

11

geez, aspacia, you don’t sound very sorry.
You attempted to stump me with the question “who made the universe, then, if there is no God?”
Well, geez, aspacia, who made God? Did he make himself out of nothing? And where is he now? Lying on a big lilo in a heaven swimmingpool sipping coctails, maybe, while disfigured outcast freaks like me run around on earth?
would you enjoy your existence if you were disfigured and without a family or friends? Would you like to walk down streets while people gape at you? Is that your idea of fun?

12

No, I probably would be as bitter and angry as you. Stephen Hawkins does not believe in a personal God, and for that matter, neither do I, but I an thankful for all I have.

Take care and again my sincere apologies. I wish you the best.

:cry:
aspacia

13

it’s ok, aspacia, you couldn’t have known that my life is that bad. If you or anyone else believes in God I will respect that, I just think Christians should not judge non-believers. It is ok, I know you didn’t want to hurt me, you were just trying to defend your beliefs as I was.

14

Reykdal, that is a lot of questions. I think if you are really looking for answers to them (which I somehow doubt), you would fare better dividing them up and posting each to its own thread. Also, you would do better to post these in the Religion forum, rather than the Philosophy forum. But, better still, you could visit your local church/synagogue/temple/whatever and talk to the people there for answers. But just in case, I’ll give a few brief answers to some of your questions.

Speaking for Christianity, yes a person can worship God alone. It is very much encouraged to pray everyday, as often as you can, to remain in touch with God. The idea of a church, as you hinted on, is to give people a place to go to learn about God, a system, I think you’ll agree, which works better than looking for people on the street to talk to and ask questions about religion.

I think “coercion” is a bit strong of a word, except in a few cases with weird cults. In general, though a church does help a person remain accountable to their actions, if said person explains that they no longer believe in God, as some people I know have, the church will respect such a decision. As for “fear,” I can only assume to the biblical context of “fearing God.” In general, the definition of fear best used in these cases is “Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power.”

You are right, there is no proof that the Christian God is different from Allah, or other such gods. I have a book that points out all the similarities among the world’s major religions. But Christianity preaches a respect for all fellows, regardless of prejudices. And were such a respect more commonly practiced, I don’t think you would see so many divisions.

One should not believe in Him, one should know Him, because He Is. According to the Bible, at some point every person is introduced to God in some fashion, and will have the choice to accept Him. I can only take that to be true because no one could possibly know if that is true.

If you regret life, if you hate your life, that is your own doing, as you are given free will by God. I recommend you do something to change your life if you are in that situation. This may fall on deaf ears, but going to church, finding a community that wants to help you, is a good start.

You are questioning God’s Will here. If you want to know His will for the world, read the Bible, if you want to know His will for you, you have to answer those questions yourself.

Hmm…if God forced us to love Him…reminds me of medieval funerals for nobles, his surviving relatives would have to pay peasants to show up.

I think Augustine’s On Free Choice of the Will answers this sufficiently. Skipping all his logic, which if you want to know, you can read his book, he concludes that evil is simply a disorder, created by the wills of men, of the goods that God created.

To the first question, I am sure people pray for miracles for others all the time, if you know someone dying of cancer, do you not pray for them? But, if a person recieves a miracle, if a person recieves anything above what is required, it is due form to thank the giver, and not ask for more.

Do you seriously believe men worship power? Especially the power of others? That makes no sense. Look at history, men have hated and overthrown every tyrant that has tried to rule them. Fyodor Dostoyevsky, one of the great philosophers whose writings lead to the current Post-Modern era, expressed in Notes from the Underground that what men love most is their freedom, and ability to express that freedom, which is exactly what God gave us in the form of free will. But He gives so much more to us than just free will, when we are unable to give anything back. In polite society, such actions call for thanks, on such a grand scale, such actions merit worship.

Note: This is very brief, if you want more details, please refer to the recommendation I made at the beginning of this post.

15

This post should have been named “How to think like an Athiest 101.” You mentioned an army of good points some more fundimentaly important then others. I am particularly fond of the one which you wrote, “Even if there is a God, and one believes in him, why must one respect him?”

In my experiance with Christian thinking this is the question that cannot be sufficiently answered by Christians. Not because it is far too complex but because they don’t understand the perspective. The question is usually taken as a silly thing to say and dismissed or danced around. A good example is when wdmc said:

If you noticed, he didn’t address the question at all. The question still remains, wdmc, why does God deserve our respect and maybe more importantly why does God get to be the only Omni-[insert whatever] being? I guess Satan felt the same way.

It’s a good question and I am not going to claim that there are no good answers, Kant sorta brings up one or two. It also doesn’t disprove God or give a good argument against Christianity. It is pretty much only useful in ending annoying conversations about God.