God must be a Universalist and not lose any souls if he is m

God must be a Universalist and not lose any souls if he is moral and God.

Be it nature or God that does the creating, we have all been created for the best possible end. This is irrefutable.

Given that God can cure any condition, even evil in a soul, the moral position God would take is to cure the soul, — not kill it or send it to hell for useless torture.

God would do his will whatever it took, and save all souls as shown in this quote.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If your God does any less and loses any souls, then he is not a moral God as he did not create his souls for their best possible end.

A moral God must be a Universalist. If he is not, then he is not a true and moral God.

That would also mean that what Christians are following is not a moral God as he has not planned for the best possible end to the souls he creates.

If you think the Christian God moral then give an argument that shows that it is more moral to kill than to cure an afflicted soul.

I do not think anyone can but I hope for a surprise.

Regards
DL

with love,
sanjay

Only the hubris of Man can dictate morality to God.

Zinnat13

True.
But, what should the God do if the only cure is sending to hell?
Does your doctor not give you medicine that tastes bad?

My reply.
Yes he does but the medicine God gives does not cure. It kills while the bad tasting medicine from our doctors cure.


True.
He certainly does whatever it takes to cure the soul.
But, you seem to objecting that.

My reply.
Not at all as I say he must cure the souls if he is a moral God.


As usual, you perception is again wrong here. By definition, the soul is immortal so it cannot be lost.
And, it is certainly destined to the best possible end one day.

My reply.
That is not scripture. The only transition from hell is death of the soul.
Scriptures show we should fear the one who can kill the soul so souls are not immortal in Christianity.


As i said above, the killing of the soul is out of the question. So, how can the God be immoral?

My reply.
See above. What is the lake of fire for?


Let me ask again as your denial has been refuted by scriptures.

If you think the Christian God moral then give an argument that shows that it is more moral to kill than to cure an afflicted soul.

Regards
DL

Cant refute anything so post something inane.

Typical Christian who wants his God to hate everyone he does.

Regards
DL

If you are talking about Christian Hell as generally conceived, sending someone to hell is not a cure for them, since they will never leave hell and hell is worse than any illness imaginable. PUrgatory, that could be a decent analogy with a bad tasting cure from a doctor, because there is a chance you will get well and in theory purgatory aids in this process of getting well. Hell can only be seen as a punishment, and an eternal one, for the soul that is sent there.

God is either a universalist or a loser.

duplicate

Thanks lads.

Regards
DL

You are again twisting the definiton to suit your argument.

Did Bible not say that the God himself blew sprit into the Adam/humans?
Thus, by definition, does the soul not belong and part of the God?
It simply means that the the soul is also eternal and cannot be killed.
The God made the body of the Adam by clay not the soul.

Death of the human does not mean the death of the soul also.

And, your argument falls flat.

Of course, he is curing and he is moral as well.

Do mothers ever slap their child or not?
Does love mean that you should not try to correct your child, if it requires some harsh steps?

Even, we human do that.
Do we not send some members of our society to the prision to realize and correct their mistakes?
Does that mean that it is an immoral act and society is immoral as a whole?

Humans can do that but when the God does the same he becomes immoral!
How? Why you have two different benchmarks?

Of course, that is scriptue. If you cannot understand it, i am helpless.

Nothing can ever kill the soul, whether hell or not, just for the simple reason that the soul is the very part of the immortal God itself. Thus, death of the soul means the death of the God as well and that is immpossible.

Yes, the bible uses the terms such as everlasting and evernal about the period of soul spending in the hell, but these terms are used to enable humans understand that how long the soul may have to spend time in the hell.

Nothing can overrule the fundamental premise that the souls are part of the God and thus immortal.

I explained that above.

Secondly, fearing the humans from the hell by telling that eternal is just to restrict them from commiting sins and mistakes, nothing else and should not be taken literally.

It is just like a mother fearing her child from going out in the night.
Do not go in the dark as ghosts live there.

Lake of fire is punishment/cure for the soul.

GIM, you are confusing the eternity of the hell with that the souls will be there for eternity too. Both are two different things. And also, the hell will never be completely free of the souls as well. Some of those would be always there but they come and go, just like what happens in our prisions.

I think that i have addressed that 2-3 times in this very post.

with love,
sanjay

Moreno, you should read my reply to GIM also.

As i explained in my reply to the GIM, there are some parts in the scriptures which should be read verbatim and some not. That creates confusion and misunderstanding. It takes an expert to discern between those two types and everyone cannot do that. That is why religions say not to question but have faith as it would be better for masses.

This does not mean that one cannot question but questioner must have the capacity to dive deep enough to reach the pearls at the bottom of the sea. If he would not be capable of that, he will merely swim on the surface and comes out saying that there is nothing except water.

The hell (whether Christian or not) is eternal, just as the heaven is. There is no doubt of that. But, individual souls do not live there permanently. They use to come for different time periods and leave also. then, some others come to replace the previous ones. The same happens in the heaven too. The place of the souls is not permanent even there but temporary.

Do you ever notice that Abrahamic God says that he built both heaven and hell. Does that not simply mean that he himself is not the resident of either? God never says that he also lives permanently in the heaven. Yes, he says for sure that it is good place to live. You can check the scriptures of all there Abrahamic religions. I do not think that you will not find even a single verse saying that the God is also resident of the heaven.

Judaism realized this and so the Sufism but neither Christianity nor conventional Islam. Sufism says to the extent that - May Allah punish me into hell forever if i ever wished for heaven. The adherents to Judaism misused this concept and made it an excuse of their shrewdness. That is why Jesus dumped all complicated metaphysical premises of Moses and focused on simple faith and morality.

[b]The ultimate destination of the soul is the very abode of the God, neither hell nor heaven. All souls are destined to be there one day too but that moment may differ in case to case. And, before that, it may go to hell or heaven once or even many times. Prophets are sent to shorten the reaching time/ suffering of the course. They are helping souls by telling the shortest route in order not to waste their time during the journey by engaging themselves in trial and error.

Jesus willingly avoided all this because he did not want the Christians to follow the route of Jews. Thus, he concentrated merely up to the heaven, not beyond. The idea behind was to enable confused masses first competent enough for the heaven.
The rest would be taken care later[/b].

First become graduate, then think of doctorate.

with love,
sanjay

Ok.

If you wish to end thinking that God would torture and burn parts of himself forever in hell, punish without any real purpose,
Then go ahead.

Just do not expect any intelligent or moral person to think that your God is anything other than some mad fool.

Thanks for showing his satanic morals as well.

Regards
DL

youtube.com/watch?v=vngjoSb-XrE

1 Thesalonian 5;21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Also ----

biblehub.com/matthew/10-28.htm

If all you have is demonstrable lies, we will not chat much.

Regards
DL

I told you the purpose, which is to cure, just like we do with our prisioners.
If you do not have any answer to this, then it is your problem, not mine.
Or, tell me that humans can become moral only when they abolish judiciay and prisions.

Contray to your perception, Given your engament at ILP so far, I do not see you either intelligent or moral. That may be your thinking about yourself but unfortunately that is not true. Forget about your perception, you not good in arguing. Your perception of arguing is that you come with something and anyone who disagrees with you is a fool and immoral by default.
That is not done and not philosophy by any means either.

GIM, do not try to run away with impertinent remarks but answer the precise argument, which i do not think that you have any. Do not display your merely frustration as that would not help your cause.

with love,
sanjay

I answered that already manytimes that the soul is the very part of the immortal God itself, thus it may suffer merely but cannot die. This premise overrule all others.

Death of soul in the hell merely a threat to keep humans away form commiting mistakes. That is all.

I know that you are not confortable arguing with me becuaue i defeated your OP’s in every thread.
And, i will continue to do, whether you like it or not. Yes, you can report my posts to mods if you find anything objectionable. They will certainly take suitable actions.

But, you cannot guide terms to me about my choice of participation of the threads. If you fear me so much, stop creating these useless threads. And, if they are justified, you should be ready to defend your case logically, instead of making complaints and telling me to go away.

Let me remind you that ILP is not an athiestic forum, but a philosophical one. And, i have the same right to defend religions as to have to criticize them.

with love,
sanjay

“I told you the purpose, which is to cure, just like we do with our prisoners.”

Go get chapter and verse that show any going from hell to heaven and cured and respect will grow.

You cannot as you are making that up.

As to your other thread, you show that you think highly of your debate abilities but I must have missed where you refuted anything. Let your ego shrink to normal pal.

“Death of soul in the hell merely a threat to keep humans away form committing mistakes. That is all.”

Here too I have to as for the chapter and verse that you do not have.

You believing your own assumptions when you nothing to back them up must be how you think you win arguments. It is not.

I like to lose arguments because then I actually gain something. You have not made me gain anything to date. I do hope you can by winning an argument.

Regards
DL

That eliminates much of the function of religion if they do this. YOu cannot simply have faith and be a tradition practicing Catholic because then you are supposed to listen to Papal and Priest interpretations, injunctions and guidelines for your thinking and behavior. As far as I understand it you are not a Christian and it seems like what you are doing here is stating what Christianity really and how the Bible should be interpreted and so on. From many of their perspectives you might not be considered an expert, nor should a non-christian, it seems to me consider your interpretation correct.

It’s a nice idea and some Christians even have this idea, though they are in a radical minority. It seems it might be the perspective of a Non-Christian Indian seeing Christianity through the mystical end of other religions.

Do you ever notice that Abrahamic God says that he built both heaven and hell. Does that not simply mean that he himself is not the resident of either? God never says that he also lives permanently in the heaven. Yes, he says for sure that it is good place to live. You can check the scriptures of all there Abrahamic religions. I do not think that you will not find even a single verse saying that the God is also resident of the heaven.

If Christianity did not realize this, then what you are putting forward are not Christian beliefs. That is simple deduction. I mean, on your part where I assume you take your own assertions as correct.

.

At various times in history you might have found yourself burned to death or otherwise punished for this interpretation, heretic for most Christians, including most Christian authorities.

I can see why you made the statements I reacted to. I can see how your version of Hell does not entail some of the problems that other conceptions of Hell entail. But it is not a Christian version of Hell, though there is a very small minority of Christians who might agree with you. Very small.

I don’t think Jesus thought of himself as leading away from the route of the Jews. I think he saw himself as a Jew teaching primarily Jews and wanting Jews to uphold the tradition and add to it some of the shifts he made towards inner purity.

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

biblehub.com/parallel/psalms/139-8.htm

Regards
DL

I don’t think Jesus thought of himself as leading away from the route of the Jews. I think he saw himself as a Jew teaching primarily Jews and wanting Jews to uphold the tradition and add to it some of the shifts he made towards inner purity.
[/quote]
Jesus taught that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Ie. Picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

It was the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law that was important and that is what Jesus taught. That also applied to traditions and culture. He sold flexibility of thinking and not rigidity. Nothing was to be sacred. Not even God as Jesus saw us all as his brethren and Gods in our own rite along with him.

youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes … r_embedded

Jesus retired God when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand. Esoterically speaking of course.

This all happens in our minds. If we internalize this particular myth.

Regards
DL

You made it too confusing to discern what is your quote and what is mine. If you do not how to quote any particular line of the post, just quote the whole post and write below that. That would be far easier for the other person to understand. Nevertheless…

I need not to go any verse in particular, for the simple reason that a human becomes human only when the God himself breathed soul in him. Are you saying that i am lying and Bible does not support that? And, any other verse cannot overrule that basic premise. Thus, the whole of your argument stnads defeated.

Did, Jesus himself not said many times that the God is within you? What does that mean?

with love,
sanjay