God vs. Satan in Insanity

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
1

I can’t find a decent article that addresses this online, but I read about it in a regional newspaper:

Dr. Park Dietz, an honored psychiatrist, says that only people who obey voices from God to do bad things are insanse while people who obey voices from Satan are prefectly sane and should not be allowed to make an insanity plea.

his reasoning goes something like this: the devil is known to be evil. if you’re obeying him, you know that what you’re doing is wrong and you’re not insane, you’re just stupid.
on the contrary, if you’re obeying God, you’re under the assumption that what you’re doing is right (even if you’re killing your child). therefore, you have the right to make an insanity plea.

what do you think of his reasoning? faulty or flawless?

2

Got voices in your head?
Schitzophrenia or sometimes telepathy is to blame.

I think that no-one should be allowed to plead insanity. All of the most evil and harmful persons are insane, not by their mental capacities but by their works.

3

Insane or not the individual in question has just proved that he is incapable of living in our society according to its rules. And therefore must be taken out of it for the good of the society and ultimately the indiviual in question.

Now the insanity plea just tells us to handle the case differently. Perhaps the person in question wasn’t at his/her best and maybe he could be “reintegrated” into the standard of society.

The psychiatrist in question didn’t maybe think this entirely through, but neverthenless his logic, according to our understanding of the nature of God and Satan, good/evil is correct. That is not to say that its premises are. Hearing voices inside one’s head is always a bad sign.

What if the person felt that Satan had a mind control on him? What if the supernatural being was non christian? Our psychiatrist is stuck in christian society. Though technically you’d just need a comparison between good/evil. But in some cases that is impossible.

I have nothing against the insanity plea, but the criteria should be much more severe.

4

we all agree that charles manson is insane and he is locked up and the key thrown away, But, he is in the prison system/ prison. How is it other insane murders get hospitals intead of prison? then get to be released to freedom. systems are screwed up. How can you be innocent if you did the crime? If you are innocent then no crime was commited. Innocent by reason of insanity is about the lamest judgment and detrimental to society.

I would say that Dr. Dietz has sound reasoning. That has been my thoughts and questions for quite awhile and I never even heard of the Dr. before this thread.

5

In Dust quote - if you’re obeying God, you’re under the assumption that what you’re doing is right (even if you’re killing your child)

Huh ?
Who kills their kids?

6

happens on occasion in the U.S. A few years ago a lady in the southern U.S. stabed herself because god revealed to her that she was carrying the anti-christ.

Also, some parents may think that they need to be tested in the same way abraham and Isac was, and so they end up killing their child.

These things are rare, but they do happen.

This is pure insanity to me with or without religion. But religion for insane people can be dangerous.

Smart Christians/muslims/religious folks with some objectivity, understand these stories in historical perspective, but really insane people do not. And since people don’t have to take any kind of insanity tests before they join a religion, these kinds of things will continue to happen.

7

Bingo!

8

SirSwedish quote - A few years ago a lady in the southern U.S. stabed herself because god revealed to her that she was carrying the anti-christ.

Whatever voice she heard it certainly wasn’t Gods…
Likewise, a “Christian” woman on a net message board posted “God told me to keep attacking Mick and to never stop”.
Poor women, I mean if anybody hears voices in their head they’re going to be afraid to admit to themselves its Satans voice, so they kid themselves its Gods…

9

Mick,

God the Father killed His Son. Jesus said, “not my will but your be done.”
People do kill or attempt suicide with beliefs that they are doing it to promote God’s plan (in some form). I’ve seen it in my profession.

Connections

10

she believed it was god. Abraham believed it was god. The point is that fundamentalism and obeying any kind of voices in your head means, “you need to check into a mental hospital” and take care of yourself.

the world is more complex than god and satan or good and evil. Not understanding that makes you a fundamentalist, and is dangerous.

Abraham had scitzophrenia. What god would tell you to kill your child . . . the god of the bible. The woman was just being tested right? but she failed to discriminate between bible lore and real life.

Hearing voices in your head is not from god or satan. It is a known common mental problem that shows up with other symptons. Get out of the ice age?

11

:laughing:

12

Okay…its been a while since I actually posted anything…but this one’s got me laughing my arse off.

I think, in the context of the original question, that the doctor has a huge flaw in his thinking, based on how christianity views itself, and its best overall defense, which, as a pagan thinker growing up in catholic school, I heard a lot:

“None know the ways of god.”

Thus, by that assertion…which, in some form of paraphrasing or another, almost all clergy adhere to as their hidey hole, how can one say that a person is actually doing evil, instead of really doing god’s will, regardless of what the actual act is (end justifies the means, etc.)

So the actual flaw in the psychiatrist’s line of thought, then, isn’t that he’s ignoring the chance of the person being nuttier than a fucknut on a cold christmas morning, but that he’s also violating the foundation of the logic by which he makes the claim: He’s stating that man knows god’s will, and thus can judge what is and isn’t done by it…something that almost every christian church (with the possible exception of the mormons…who seem to think things on a more critical level) claims is impossible.

…And thus, by his own base argument, anyone who does anything in the name of god should be given the benifit of the doubt, and viewed as a holy man, while anyone who does anything in the name of satan should be shot as quickly as one would shoot a retard playing about a missle control room.

In finale, my good friend brian said it best:
“And here we make a, um…straight.”

13

His reasoning is sound, it seems to me. Insanity is defined as lacking the ability to tell right from wrong. All this chap said boiled down to “God = good, satan = bad; if someone does something they know is bad, they are not insane”

14

HUHAHAHAH. :laughing:

Amorality… It’s all come down to this…
Amorality vs morality.
“Insanity” vs “sanity”.

Give me your hot dogs!
I want your hot dogs.
Cook them thrice.
Not once, not twice, but thrice.
Then between thy buns, add rice and dead mice.
Also, with spice, would be nice.

Put on some really relaxing, sexy music in the background.
Pour honey and dust cynamin onto thy hotdogs.

God, I can’t spell “cynamin”, forgive me.

Now, at 7pm, cast a circle, and in the center of thy fire pit
But thy offering to Lord Dan~,
And this act of faith will grant thee 17 years of good luck.

You get that?
I’m immoral now?

15

I love hot dogs

16

Connections quote - God the Father killed His Son. Jesus said, “not my will but your be done.” People do kill or attempt suicide with beliefs that they are doing it to promote God’s plan (in some form). I’ve seen it in my profession.

Well cure them :wink:

17

Wow…your own reasoning there holds the same flaw. He’s not saying that the person isn’t insane if they know its bad, he’s saying they’re not insane if the voice is satan’s. If its god’s voice, and they believe they’re doing good, then its insanity. If its satan’s voice, regardless of whether they believe the action is right or wrong, they’re not insane and should be tried.

18

Jewish psychology… :laughing:

19

what do you mean by cure them? do you mean teach them more fundamental christianity and keep them insane.

How about let them keep their religion but at the same time explain to them the objective side to the world as well. But if they have mental issues, they need mental help.

20

The fallacy you raise lies in the pretense “All humans believe satan is bad”. This is a silly thing to say when you take :imp: satanism :imp: in to account, I know.

…

Alright, it has been 15 minutes now, and I just can’t come up with a rebuttal that coincides with my moral values. You win the prize. Gwyllgi 1, NoHotdogBuns 0

Dan~ : uhhh… :-k