God

Hello Everyone. Please forgive me for not putting this post in the “religion” section because I am of the opinion god is not about religion; he is about life itself. Now I just use “he” because this is just a common pronoun we have become accustom to much akin to the earth as “she” (mother nature). Somehow there is a balance to that. IMO, there are basically three trains of thought as to what god is; the religious interpretation, the philosophical interpretation and the scientific interpretation. Now these can be further identified as the theist, agnostic and atheist, exceptions noted and understood. Is there that wisdom that will allow an understanding that will be accepted by all three? Hmm?

Now to establish that understanding we have to stay within the boundaries of what we do Know, for sure. One, there is the Universe of which we know litte but it represents a macro/microcosm of a whole bunce of stuff of which we are a part, us the human being. You can’t really deny that?

How we got here and why…? Good question! We have been trying to figure that out for thousands of years. We have been digging holes in the earth trying to understand her past so we can get an idea of what “was” ,that will give us some clues to the “hear and now”. How have we done. Terrible! IMO, we are more confused than ever. Honestly we don’t have a clue.

The theist, and I am using the most quoted tome on the subject and the most “powerful and influential”, the bible. it seems the pros and the con’s of what theist think are centered around this text, again exceptions noted and understood. It seems to have a pretty good grip on the notion that we were “created by god”. Now in that visualizstion one can help by picture a “supreme human being” making man and woman and all the other stuff. God being interpreted as being the all knowing “alpha and omega”; the beginning, the middle and the end. Or omnipotent, omnipresent of all things. And that I think is were we really made a big mistake. Now think about this minute. If that were the case, we would never get a 'stumped toe", would we? What in the hell would we need “senses” for? It would be a “robotic existence”, all good, all magical, all “perfect”? Hmmm?
After all, we were created in god’s image, right? Hmmm? Now what if, just maybe, we kinda got that backwards? What if we created god “in our image”? We’re getting stumped toes all over the place! What’s going on here? Maybe he’s mad at us, or something? But hes all good and merciful how could he be mad at us? What in the hell is going on here, really? Well ladies and gentlemen, hell IS what is going on here! You are right smack dab in the middle of it!

Now before you get your bowels in an uproar, it had to be that way! You see we are not “creations” of god, we are “extensions” of that god; we’re just brand new is all. When we stump our toe, god does too. He’s learning right along with us what it is to be human too! As far as the future we will both (one) create it together. Now god is all knowing all present and omnipotent right…up…until…this…second and no more! The future doesn’t exist, for the micro-second we step into it, it becomes ever so quickly the "now " which ever so quickly becomes the past.
Now I have a little ways to go yet, but I am going to post this and will continue a little later. Thanks for your consideration and not posting just quite yet. :slight_smile:

William

you’ve said a mouthfull.

under the umbrella of religion, there are many drastically differing interpretations. that goes for philosophy and science as well.

Really what these categories refer to is perspective and approach. it’s not really fair to ask for a perspective which agrees with all of them, because they are by definition different and often contradictory.

An understanding of cause and effect gives you the capacity to understand all perspectives. you can understand why religious people believe, why philosophers wonder, and why scientists experiment. you can also on occasion understand the logic of the perspective and perhaps even agree with it, but accepting them all as valid is a different kettle of fish.

Sorry that i’m posting when you thanked me in advance for not doing so, but this does not address the coming beef of your post, it merely adds perspective to some of the initial points.

cheers.

You are making errors of sweeping categorizations amd assumptions here, that you repeat numerous times throughout your OP.
There is no “religious interpretation” of ‘what god is’ (as if ‘he’ actually is a ‘what’. Neither is there a ‘religious’ or a ‘scientific’ interpretation of “what god is”. Those Conscious Perspectives who ‘accept’ a ‘god’, for those who think that the god that they ‘accept’ is a ‘what’, have their own interpretations, perceptions, thoughts, feelings of ‘what’ that ‘god’ must/might be. And this spectrum spans throughout the religious, scientific and philosophical percepctives.
Example, there are many religions. They all have generally different ‘party line’ perspectives. Then there are the various sects, sub-sects, denominations (Sunny, Shiite, Catholic, Baptist, Mormon…), etc… In each sub-sect there are many individualistic interpretations…
We are all unique Perspectives with unique perceptions and ‘interpretations’.
That ‘broadbrushing/categorizing’ throughout your OP is what makes it fail logically, philosophically.

Again you make the same error. A ‘religion’ does not have an understanding, a religion has adherents, featuring unique and individual people.
And, according to some religious doctrine, the mere thought that you ‘understand god’ is idolatry, and to think that you can understand ‘god’ (or that ‘god’ can be understood) is the height of vain ignorance.

Now to continue, I do understand there will be those who adamantly will contradict what “God” is simply because of what is the theist view and I understand that; any notion using that word “god” will fall contradictory to what they perceice based on the knowledge and experiecnces they have been exposed to in their life as we attempt to define what is good and evil, heaven and hell, right and wrong and so forth and will maintain life is just a random event and has no purpose from their individual perspectives. It is this “argument” that is IMO, hell itself as they hold fast to those perceptions and will not hear any perception to the contrary.That is ego IMO and all three, the atheist, theist and the agnostic are guilty of that and the very reason why we kill each other; a clash of knowledge, so to speak. That argument is primarily more intense between the atheist and the theist as the agnostic, Philosopher, will at least give it consideration as they will seek to find that silver lining of truth in all the thoughts of philosophers and why they think as they do, illustrated by Rodin’s sculpture “The Thinker”, who is puzzled with confusion, perplexity and the lack of harmony that is so apparent in life as we effort to find reason to it all.

The theist has determine they have found the answer as they define god; the atheist adamantly protest as they can see no sense to that definition and the agnostic is trying to find a common thread that will answer the reason why they ponder as they do to reach a truth in it all. The thought of the philosopher is more sublime, where as the thoughts of the theist and atheist are not. They are convinced of what they think from the knowledge they have, coupled with their life experiences that allows them to find a solace and they ardently protect their egos to survive in the confusion that is illustrated in the reality we have created. That is, in short, the hell of it all: all those perceptions clashing on the battlefield we have created that destroys the quality of that life that be. The ego is that defense mechanism we “had” to develop that would allow us to survive amidst the chaos and it is that very ego that created the very first “religious” thought and those interpretations of alpha/omege for they indeed based an understanding of god on their “human perceptions” issuing to god that “adamant” nature or autonomy that was evident in man himself stemming from man’s wrath, jealousy and vengeance which is so evident in the mindset today of the theist and the atheist not so in the agnostic or philosopher.

So it can be conceived that in mans perfection but ignorance of all that is the universe or god itself created a god to be in his own naive understanding that is atheism itself as they maintain that same attitude of the atheist today and it is the thought of those theist, they created in those naive interpretations that give some credence to the saying of “what goes around, comes around” and the chaos so evident in the world today. Hmm? Which can be also explain the attitude so issuant today in the mindset of the atheist, as they fall prey to their own creation as they, in their deniance of god and holding to their own understanding as they seem to manifest all the answers and their own godlike defiance so evident in “their wrath, vengeance and jealousy” of anyone who insults their “intelligence” who are only a manifestion of the atheist’s creation. Yes, IMO, as I have said we are “of that universe/god” that is responsible for our creation, but we are “not that god” in it’s entirety. Not by a long shot. Now, who is the scientists?

That is our “curious nature” brought on by the enigma of “death” that we understand is the “omega” of our existence and the “unknown” as we effort to quantify and extend life if view of that “death” as we “want” to be, for we have no idea of what “not to be” is all about and that is the very definition of “greed” itself evident in all the holes we have dug into the earth and the body itseelf. Both, perfect creations. For us to understand perfection, we must first understand what is imperfect and that can be called the indoctrination and orientation of our existence itself giving reason to the understanding of why we had to experience hell itself before we would come to that understanding of what heaven is all about. It’s just a matter of how much hell we are willing to endure. We have no idea of what living is all about, yet for we are too busy at surviving. A paradox we created.

Now back to my original post. There is one universal paradigm that cannot be denied that is issuant on our very existence: man/woman/child. That we know. Now I am speaking of “human existence” that separates us from “animal” who is also of that male/female/offspring paradigm. In that autonomous mind of man that created our religious understanding totally scorned womans role in that paradigm and the imbalance that it has caused thoughout our being. When if if not for woman and the creation she is we, would not “be”. This is evident in our manifestion of life being “mankind” and not “humankind” and our erroneous understanding of man and woman, father and mother, heaven and earth and the children we all are evident by the “infighting” of the universal family we represent. More later…

Thanks,
William

Now, let’s assume for a moment that there is no such thing as “indigenious life” on the planet Earth and we all “arrived” here. We are all “extraterrestrial” in our nature. Now this can be visualized by witnessing the sperm of the male impacting the egg of a female with that of a comet or meteor impacting the Earth.

Now that beings into an accord those similarities in creationism and evolution lessening the gap; and the reasonable assumption that would explain the vastly “different races” who live here and come to the realization that we are all human “now” and of that “inexplcable harmony” that is the universe/god. Now take the sensate human being out of the picture and you will see a harmony that is unbelievable let alone explainable.

We can witness it in all of nature and that of animal; we the human are the only ones who are dischordant to that harmonic resonance. Now let’s venture here a little into the more esoteric nature of our “imagination” an it’s representations in this reality and those that are not that constitute our dreams and nightmares. Those too, are a part of the “orientation and indoctrination” of what it is be human and going from “evil” or “hell” that is in control and reaching that heaven we were created to achieve as human beings.

Now to understand the imagination, IMO, it is an effort to explain this reality by venturing into areas of the mind (the past) that were meant to remain closed; or better still lies in the term we call “pandora’s box”. Now let me explain that. In that we are “of god”, but not “that god”, we do share share a common link and that is the mind. We have that power to venture into that ‘mind of god’ and it will drive you “mad” also explaining the “maddening crowd” that is the reality we are currently existing in. Now again, don’t get your bowels in an uproar for it’s not as bad as it “could” get. Not yet, anyway. As a matter of a fact, I think we are gradually closing “pandora’s box” and it is my effort to slam it shut. :smiley:
more later.

William

Scientist’s in their observation have created a term called “natural selection”, and IMO it is an excellant observation in that there seems to be an “order” in which can be assume there is a grand scheme of things that “automatically” controls the existence of earlier species that arrived first to make way for those that came later; It is a “universal/god” process and one we have absolutely no control over, hence the word “natural” that can also be arguably considered “godly”. Now all of these various “life forms” are of the “mind” of god/universe and , what can be described as a “disturbed/altered mind state” accessing these prior/animal/extinct species that exists in that universal mind and is evident in the horror we depict in this reality associated with what the imagination conjure’s up as “monsters”. Those altered states of perception can be explained as a “friction” involved in breaking away from imposed “curious” states that is a part of our becoming more human. Those “monsters” are a direct result of that imagination that we created our religious interpretations of “satan”; half animal, have human, or god/satan duality or joy/misery as we assume one cannot exist without the other. Not good as things go. Which can be stated at this time if we want to realize the joy of life or wallow in the misery of it. Hmmm? Misery can only come from that “disturbed” mind state that stems from our curiosity as we try to understand the nature of good and evil, life and death as we eventually learn to “do not disturb” as we acquire “peace of mind” as we align with that harmony of the universe that is responisible for our being.as It will not align to chaos; we must align with that harmony. Now how do we do that? More later.

William

Harmony? What the hell is that? Being that it has never existed? Yet in nature itself it so very apparent of it’s harmonic structure and we see very little of it in our life itself which leads to nihilistic thinking that there is no meaning to life itself for it so very “dischordant”! Now to understand an inkling of what harmony is we must observe those words we have established that represent the chaos of this reality itself that we often just lament, “that’s life”, such as "greed, invasion, conquer, waste, corruption, selfishness (ego), poverty, disease, cancer, condescension, discrimination, racism, homosexuality, AIDS, pornography, child and spousal abuse, war, filth, ignorance, mental illness, abortion, feminism, ADD, ADHD, personality disorders, suicide, drug addiction and the trillion dollar drug empire (legal and illegal) we resort to that help us cope and survive, cripple, handicapped, moron, imbecile, idiot, status, envy, sloth, conceit, wrath, ire, anger, and the “cost it takes to survive in all that”. You may just say that’s life, but folks…that’s hell, IMO. There is somehing seriously missing in all that “life” and it all started with those misinterpretations of god initiated by those “mankind, not humankind” who are responsible for the bible itself from their human perception and frailties or could be defined a “hubris”. What is missing, or that “missing link”, is a more accurate understanding of god from a “universal perspective” or a godly one. In the very first sentence of this thread, I said god is not about religion, but about life itself. and to understand that one must examine all those “religious perceptions” that represent the many faces and cultures that are represented on this planet for in those there is a truth that can be establish that will draw us together eliminating the need for any of them and the fear and bloodshed they have all caused. And the answer will be in eliminating the very first word on the list and when we do that, the othes will follow suit: GREED, as we come to the realization one of our most serious mistakes was to assume that his Earth is for sale open to the highest bidder inferring their is a “cost for living on this planet”. How so very utterly ridiculous. More later.

William

Yet, nevertheless, on you continue with the same fallacies.
Enjoy your Quixotic quest!
I’ll unsubscribe from the topic now.
nameless out