I usually don’t go into this kind of stuff, but is God responsible for everything in the universe? That is to say, are all objects and events caused by him?
Well, isn’t that the point of omnipotency? Unless we define that differently…
Well, I mean, if god created everything, did he not cause everything? I’m glad you agree, but you’re not the kind of fellow I was hoping to ensnare.
Yes I believe so.
Aha! More later…
According to Conan, God (or Crom) is responsible only for giving a man the at birth the strength to kill his enemies. After that, yer on your own.
I believe that God is responsible for most things, and that He can have responsibility because He is an agent with a will. He causes stuff. However, I believe He is not the only agent with a will- for example, there is us. So, He is not the cause of things that you or I are the cause of.
From what I can see…
Stars are burning because of constant fussion of hydrogen, not because of “God’s” magick, supernatural influance/control.
So, even if the star was created by “God”, now it’s just automatic, and not literally being controlled by “God”.
Initiation is different than direct cause and direct control.
This cosmos could have been: “Ooops, what the fuck!?”
It was still created by “God”, but is it being controlled!?
Data:
God is against homosexuality and sodomy.
Data:
God designed all animals on earth.
Data:
Transvestite snails come together and the first one to bite off the other one’s penis get’s to have sex with it.
Portent:
God’s principal and personality and morality does not exist within his own actions, thus self-contradiction of principal. He directly created and did what he does not approve of or want.
Excuse:
Sexual deviation is only bad when humans do it, because humans have “free will” and “self control”.
Portent:
Sexual desires are instinctive, not caused or controlled by logic.
Portent:
Bullshit is also part of creation. It plops down on earth’s crust. Does that make it divine?
Dan~ Is that really true? About snails, I mean.
Yup.
Almost as bad as the species which have babbies eating eachother.
All part of “God’s perfect design”? 
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I say no, all objects and events are not caused by him. He gave us the “I” or “I am”. I think if we only understand that man’s origin is divine, godly and was given free will and used that free will to cause him to fall and therefore became earthly and that there is a way back to God and remarry God. God instructed man, go out and multiply, go out and prosper, go out and be productive. It is up to man’s “I” to do what he was instructed. Should the ego “I” follow his “id” the tempter, or the “superego” the conscience? The self is constantly tested by both forces. The “I am” must choose. As to the sufferings and the evilness of this world, the only explanation I can think of is karma. We are placed under certain conditions here on earth that would permit us to experience what we hadn’t in past lives and to further our ascent to God. We think it is unfair that humanity suffers so much but I think it is of our own doing plus karma. Poverty in African countries for example. But don’t these countries export their products, that means they get payment in exchange for their goods and services. The rich there are not starving. We need to consider their politics there, corruption, etc. Man starts war, not God. Did God create the destructive forces of nature? The law of change can explain that. Nothing is static. The land where we live is not anchored to the bottom of the earth. We can prepare ourselves. New Orleans shouldn’t have been created. It is below sea level. We reap what we sow. The sinless man being punished, again karma and reincarnation.
The design is perfect? Hmm… I could say how do you know what perfect is? Have you ever seen it? Maybe it’s perfect for something we don’t even know about. Maybe snails biting off others penis’ somehow helps something, who knows? Do you? I heard something once… can’t remember which philosopher this was…, something like because our mind is flawed, so is are assumption of what’s perfect.
I’m only giving a defense here.
Faust, good to see you again.
Thanks, Bubba. I agree, Club. Anthropomorphic prejudices are not a good basis to attack the notion of the perfection of a god’s design. That’s a little simplistic, but it holds water.
But if something like that during natural selection is perfect, and some animals eating their babies is okay, then why isn’t human bullshit okay and ‘unsinful’ also?
It is a divinely perfect design that punishes weakness, corruptness and stupidity.
Only humans would suppose to be greater than such a system.
But God is supposedly omniscient is he not? Therefore he must have already knew before he created the world that human beings would decieve him, and he has thus condemned us and helpless animals to pain and suffering through his own free will and is moreover content to let it happen. Such a God would be unworthy of worship, no matter what you say, the extent, intensity and needlessness of it is unjustifiable under such terms.
Dan~ As you know, I am an atheist. The way I understand it, though, is that the Christian God makes the rules, and we are supposed to obey them. I honestly don’t know the rules for snails. My point is that it might be exceedingly difficult to figure out what snail sin really is. It just might not look like human sin.
But it might. I’m just not sure it’s safe to assume that God thinks it’s okay for us to be biting each other’s penises off, even if He thinks it’s okay for snails to.
It might be. Probably only God, and perhaps some snails, know the answer to that.
I agree with what faust is saying here about snails and men not having the same rules, necessarily. I would go on to say that you, Dan~, obviously don’t think that all the bullshit humans do is OK. So the question of “Why is some of the stuff we do wrong?” is a difficult one for anybody of any religion or philosophy, and I don’t think can be thrown out there as a point of skepticism for any one belief, unless it is patently amoral.
Perfect ??? well today perfect would mean a lot of different things, from an idealistic notion perfect seems to be the natural and imperfection would allude to defective nature, but the materialist world is so not in conjecture with this idea of perfectionism.
Hence,the very contradiction is an imperfection or “perfection” ??
Getting back to the topic, the responsibility of God is totally a thought which belongs to the realm of the unknown which could ultimately be reasoned but the fact that we are inconclusive of the nature of perfection and imperfection is a sure barrier…
The health, future and greater good of the species – is the “right”.
Its opposite is the “wrong”.
“Law” is speciesism.
All cultures, no matter what God or atheism they have, will also have social desire. Social desire means someone wants there to be a certain KIND of world, and a certain KIND of lifestyle.
These conflict sometimes. I don’t think bible-lifestyle is ‘perfect’, even when fallowed in an orthadox, ‘perfect’ fashion. Some people do think it’s ‘perfect’, though. But it’s always been about opinion, and opinion has always been about desires.
I think it would far more modest if bible-writers simply wrote: “This is what I want, and this is what I think.”
But, if they say it’s what “God” wants, and what “God” thinks, it packs more of a punch, if it is a message to people who believe in “God” and trust the writer somehow as though he is a prophet of some sort of accuracy.
All you’ve really got, as proof, is the prophecies which came true. There’s been prophecies in many other religious texts which also came true. There’s been common psychics who have precognition, and can ‘prophecy’ even better than the bible could. So what now? No proof for the miracles, and even miracles, on small scale, can be done by psychics and magick-users.
I see “God” groups and ideals as imperfect, non-ultimate, non-absolute, just like everything else, and the delusion of ultimate superiority is what keeps the sheeple obediant and faithful instead of freely being able to take on a more multicultural form of spiritual belief. An “impure”, “unorthadox” belief – which is actually thought-up and changed by the believer, NOT by the “spiritual leader” or “dictator”.
But if we are talking about another “God”, other than the Semetic fascismo dude, we keep on finding various versions of the same thing: human desire.