Going down the rabbit hole.

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

Linear reasoning.

We all generally agree that logic by itself cannot prove anything.

So we attempt to refine evidence through logic. A claim is justified by axioms and reasonable probability. This is matched by a common sense intuition of our born experience.

When there are conspiracies, this complicates the matter. We are all very aware that the present condition of humanity is not one of open transparency and honesty. And so we are very certain of various forms of conspiracy. Come on. This is beyond obvious. There’s always SOMEONE hiding SOMETHING from you just about anywhere you look. If there are elements intentionally skewing evidence and claims, then we now have to imagine that there are gaps unaccounted for. That there may be important information whose evidence is gradually crept away or at times aggressively destroyed. INCLUDING much of the evidence that this was ever done. Therefore, SEEING is not always BELIEVING. Any magician proves the folley of the untrained mind. No hardline skeptic is prudent to believe that the mass of truth is being openly taught.

At times we get glimpses of phenomena that seem intentionally made, and very unmentioned. We get obscure projects that we’re quite certain are not happy in nature. So it is, that it can be assumed we will, in this paradigm, uncover strange secrets by fading and buried facts that have to be fought for . . . IF we want to KNOW. And no, the secrets are not for the benefit of all mankind. Would that be realistic?

And what if this truth would grip you in fear? Would you deny it just by that fact alone? Would you reject all knowledge which you feel speaks about futility?

What if there is a string to find to unravel the entire tapestry of a strange and terrible secret threat. Is it not worth fighting for the darker truths? Is there a seperation between suspicion and paranoia? Is it properly skeptical to assume that the whole plan has everything well in hand? Is it sensical to believe that you are powerless to do anything?

Here, at this point, you can remain in linear thought and attempt to regain control over something corrupt. Something very practical and investigative, like the work of Michael C. Ruppert (whom we’re all too tired at the end of the day to really go into . . . occupied with our . . . “practical” busy-work. But we can still resist. Take arms. Refuse to work. Demand to know, with hostility).

So what would suggest that there necessitates more than linear reasoning?

And what if then . . . that a factor of the sciences we have not yet quite discovered deals with the intentions of concsious beings to alter the physical forces. And that this is part of the secret. That on some scale, THINKING is CREATING. Well then linear thought has become even more blurred to reality. Paradoxically, strange beliefs bring about strange discovery. You are then charged to walk an unclear line between blind loyalty to lies and belief into manifestation by intuition.

And what if then . . . that part of the phenomenal hidden facts are dealing with ancient information (tablets, copper scrolls . . . ) that have slowly seeped (and distorted themselves) in all of our culture.

And what if then . . . that much of this information deals with forces and societies far beyond our own. To us would appear divine and mystical. At some times, even preposterous. Because sometimes the greatest discoveries are subjects of ridicule.

And what if . . . (and this one is just next to impossible to imagine) that the great realization, the great critical events upcoming will all happen in YOUR time. And YOU will play a critical ROLE. Is it possible that you were MADE to believe that you’re rather insignificant? Is it possible that you’ve completely forgotten something almost impossible?

Is it possible . . . that some of your most wild fictions (your creative, intuitive side) are channeling some of the greater truths than the lie you’ve been forced into.

Does this mean that reality is a lump of unidentifiable chaos, if so, or simply that you are at the TIP of the iceberg.

HOW FAR DOWN the rabbit hole do you really want to go?

The TRUTH is NOT being handed to you on a silver platter.

ERRATA: I’ve edited this post from a former phrase “glimmer of hope” which to me was an error as critical as a surgeon sewing up the scizzors inside the patient.

2

Linear reasoning is confining, but without it you would simply go mad and be left without the ability to effectively communicate with other people.

3

Conspiracies… So what is your hidden agenda? And what is the agenda of those who are controlling your environment? At what point does going behind and behind and behind ever stop?

The answer is: Conspiracy breeds on itself. There is no end to behind. Once one enters the hall of mirrors, there is no exit.

At the moment on several discussion boards:

chemtrails

organite

2012

aliens

illuminati.

I’m sure there are many more, I just don’t look for them.

I’ve got my tinfoil hat and ether crystal on a genuine leather thong, so I’m protected against all those diabolical conspiracies. Conspiracy theorists are just theists wearing different colored clothes. All supposition and conjecture challenging the world to prove a negative.

But if you find it entertaining, go for it. :smiley:

4

Excellent critique from the both of you.

Linear reasoning is justified by linear reasoning. It would consider intuition as a creative factor- a randomizing of concepts in order to get possible matches of high probability.

Intuitive reasoning is justified by intuitive reasoning. The skeptics of linear reasoning would use no argument orther than saying that it just feels wrong.

Can chemtrails, organite, 2012, aliens, and illuminati all be part of the same vast secret?

I ask “how far down the rabbit hole” because you can pursue some strange arguments with linear reasoning and come to strange results. But you can always stop there. When a news broadcast from india claims that the bones of a 36 foot human were discovered, were the producers playing a joke, or did someone sculpt and bury all the bones, or more? The question arises “why didn’t I hear about this everywhere?” The answers can speculate both the amazing and the trivial.

If you follow a lot of those strange things and they come to some consistency with claims made around the world by “channelers” does it mean a speculative epidemic out of desparation for answers? Or do these people really not all look at the research and just come to same conclusions in their strange random-seeming writing?

5

The head honchoes seem to be enternained by the WMD and Iranian nuclear weapons conspiracy theories. :sunglasses:

Larry McDonald speaking of the world government conspiracy 3 months before his plane was shot down.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5owqo_larry-mcdonald-et-le-nouvel-ordre-m

Oh and JFK spoke of the same thing shortly before being shot.

6

JHC!! The infection begins…We definitely need a new forum: Flying Around In Space Panties.

I have a new theory of conspiracy. There exists in every government, a clandestine group devoted to generating conspiracies theories to keep the folks entertained. As long as people are busy proving their endless suppositions, they won’t be paying attention to what is REALLY going on. It is the perfect disinformation ploy. Keep the sheep distracted by letting them pretend they KNOW. Just drop 'em off at the hall of mirrors. They’ll do the rest.

7

tentative- this is one of the kinds of reaction that I want to see a lot of.

Almost every social problem can be distilled down to a former cult epidemic. The body of Human progress is cancerous, or virulent. So isolate the cancer and cure the patient. Am I speaking the truth? Am I just another cancer epidemic? Or am I a vaccine giving a weak part of the epidemic so that the host can boost its immunity?

You don’t have to agree with me. You do need to isolate the epidemic.

8

The trick is isolating the most probable truths, assuming them, and seeing where they lead.

They all lead to the same place – behind closed doors.

Regardless Pleiades, never over-estimate the human animal. People in the highest circles of global affairs are there, enslaved by the same desires as you or I. They are weak in the same ways as well. Human ignorance grips weak minds without mercy. Do not assume that a billionaire knows more than the average man, because in fact, he is the average man. With all-seeing eyes, you may see through the door and realize that nobody except the [self] has the answers you seek. This is the gold that is truly hidden from view that people wish to possess – and they are hungry for gold while their stomaches grumble without food. How do you feed children when there is only so much food to go around the table?

With great power comes great responsibility.

9

At some point we have to deal with pragmatic realities. This may be an un-philosophical perspective, but it doesn’t make it less of an issue. Yes, our philosophical perspectives create their own form of duality and it follows that it also creates the world we live in. But the body doesn’t exist in abstractions. It may be formed of genetic predispositions, but is still involved in extracting from its immediate environment all that is necessary to sustain life and procreate. The threats to that are part real, part fiction. It is less what has to be done in the face of diminishing resources and increasing population, as it is in how we do that. In some cultures, it will be utter chaos and destruction - for a variety of reasons, but for those of us with the luxury of education and way too much time on our hands, letting the hot air out of the balloon slowly is possible. The constant looking behind the green door is a waste of time. See it as it appears to be, confirm as best we can, devise our best possible solutions, and go bravely into the night. Forget the siren call of the rabbit hole. We need to begin paying attention to what is in front of us without devolving into endless speculation. If we don’t, then we are no better off than the people perched in front of “American Idol”

10

Tentative offers the important antithesis.

As the dangers of our world increase in speed and obviousness, there will be more urging you to focus on your own survival and co-operation while a great dieing off occurs (scientists included). There will also be more urging you to prepare for a fantastical paradigm shift (New Age, mostly).

The government, of course, will fail to mention any of this.

11

What you’re ultimately talking about though is fragments of truth that are strewn throughout human minds. Yes there are bunch of insightful things people ‘off the deep end’ say, and much interesting points they find out, but the side effect is over-imagination, overthinking and overconnection. One does not live long enough to spend time entertaining such long chains of thought, it would take many lifetimes to sort out the genuine articles from the phantoms for a single person.

Conspiracies are ‘the norm’, the whole word conspiracy can be replaced by ‘contract’ or ‘mutual agreement betweeon 2 or more persons for some purpose, plan or gain’.

People conspire to fall in love
People conspire to get married
People conspire to get higher wages
People conspire to go to war

And on and on…

12

This is the gem of the argument against those that would regard any “conspiracy” whistleblowing as paranoia. Who would be so gullible, so weak-minded to think that there is no conspiracy in the human order of greed and deceit.

13

Pleiades,

It is one thing to say that people have an agenda. We can even say that there are many hidden agendas, but the term conspiracy carries other connotations. While it is possible that there are benign “conspiracies”, the term is almost always used negatively. The internet is loaded with websites all proclaiming that “they’re out to get us.” It’s either the government, the illuminati, the zionists, the aliens, the devil and his minions… the list of malovent “out there” monsters under the bed is practically endless. Conspiracy theorists have damn near created an industry out of paranoia. I’ll take that back. They HAVE created an industry out of paranoia.

I understand the necessity of a healthy amount of skepticism. Things are not necessarily how they appear. But to stay suspended in endless speculation about “what are they up to?” is the classic definition of paranoia. You speak of gullible and weak mindedness. Who could be more gullible or weak minded than a conspiracy theorist always looking behind the curtains and under the bed, absolutely convinced that they know the monster is lurking there waiting to pounce?

At the heart of conspiracy theory is the fear of being controlled; being controlled by evil forces whose agenda is to do us harm. Oops. I just defined paranoia again… :-k

14

no such thing today?

15

There is just as soon as there is the smoking gun. The “outing” of evil occurs occasionally. Typically, it is some greedy corporation involved in some sort of shady practice, a government clandestine operation gone awry, the usual gammut of human stupidity…

But pointing to a handful of fools who get caught doesn’t justify the leap to the evil consortium out to destroy/control the world. That is comic book plot and comic book mentality.

Not that conspiracy theory has no power. Joe McCarthy would be proud of today’s conspiracy theorists. Sly innuendo, anectdotal “evidence”, half-baked scientific analysis, and always something behind whatever was behind, and behind this and that.

Satan loves his minions… but it isn’t some evil cartel, it is the theorists themselves. :laughing: