It is if taken totally literally, most do not. Only fanatics will.
No. Sinners get blame. Eve gets blame. The variuos people who ended up hurting Jesus get blame. Egyptians get blame, Adam gets Blame. The people who did not listen to God in Noah’s time get blame. sodomites get blame. Adn on and on…
I Think the most evil thing he has done, according to Abrahamists would be luring Eve to eat the apple.
Not sure you understand Hell.
So you Think that standing up to Power is by definition good. Do you live like this?
He did other stuff too. And it’s not clear he considered it a sacrifice which implies he was willing to suffer for the good of others. If a mugger shoots you in the street but the impact of the bullet knocks you out of the way of the bus, this does not make the mugger a nice guy, unless he was trying to save you.
Ah, so you are just making up stuff. I get it better now.
No there’s a clear dissonence between what Satan does and how he is described in the Bible and your interpretation of what he does.
By people and texts that have different morals than you and a different sense of God.
Satan isn’t the torturer, where did you get that horrible idea?
I am disappointed with your rejection of Satan since he loves you, but have no worries - he’ll love you even if you don’t believe in him.
And who made all those sinners do what they did? Satan ofc! See? Ultimately, Satan gets all the blame. 99 people die in a plane accident? Satan’s fault. One person survives? Can’t you just feel Yahweh’s love. Bullshit, right?
But that’s not a bad thing. Satan wanted to free them and further their knowledge! It’s god who punished them for receiving knowledge because he wants Adam and Eve ignorant and obedient!
Not sure YOU understand Hell!
When did I say that? I think that standing up to evil is good.
Elaborate please.
3Sum? Tyrannus?
Christianity has a lot of sects and branches and you are free to make up your own interpretations, but they are hardly orthodox or common ones. Try pretending that you are Catholic, go to confession and try to put all the blame for your sins, after you recount some, on Satan, and see if you are correct about Satan getting all the blame in christianity. Try this in Protestant sects also. And if you can find a Calvinist, try it on them. That should give them a good laugh.
if Satan got all the blame, why would anyone else get punished? Or to put it in the more obvious terms that actually fit. If Satan got all the blame why do other people get blame they cannot pawn off on Satan?
If you want to parody something or make satire, it helps if you base it on the beliefs you are satirizing.
I understand that you don’t think it’s a bad thing. And I don’t Think it would be a bad thing. But those are your values.
Can you explain where the Bible indicates it is cozy.
I mean, I get you, you are playing. But there is a confusion. It is as if the Bible indicates somehow that he is a hero in some of your Writing. And from there you present, just like the Abrahamists, objective values. This is Good, period. This is bad, period. It ends up being poor satire.
In your argument you focused on him standing up to something so powerful.
There were some other Points you did not respond to.
What?
I said that Satan made me do evil things, the reply was that if I went to church more often it would lessen Satan’s presence in my heart.
I won’t defend Christian worldviews, I don’t know WHY they blame everything on Satan, I realize their interpretations are contradictory and nonsensical.
Oh, the bible doesn’t. Satan told me that after I inferred the true message from the bible. If you infer the true message of Satanism from the bible Satan will reveal himself to you too 
When did I mention “objective values”? Stop putting words in my mouth, the only one who can put stuff in my mouth is Satan.
Powerful AND, most importantly, EVIL.
[size=150]Satan is your savior and you must get on your knees and beg Satan to come, and please Satan, or you will not taste his salivation. You have a hole in your being that only Satan can fill so you must allow Him to enter you and penetrate your Darkness. He can fill you with Light but only if you let Him. Don’t be afraid to swallow the truth! [/size]
Get thee in my behind Satan.
3Sum,
Tyrannus did this thread, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, not too long ago. I thought you might be him.
In the book of Job, God claims to be responsible for all creations–both good and evil. And Satan appears to be an aspect of God. So the book of Job appears to be God arguing with himself over the righteousness of one man.
3sum, you are turning our universal symbols on their ear. We depend on these “absolutes” to understand each other. And now you are saying our bad symbol, Satan, is good. And I suppose by following this to its logical conclusion, now, God is bad.
And this will not do according to established understanding of these symbols.
In short, ye are fucking with our heads 3sum. Why?
I thought Satan meant the Adversary. In the Job debates, in the temptations of Christ in the wilderness–Satan opposes what is considered good. Are there Satans outside the Abrahamic religions? Ones we haven’t heard about who are somehow benevolent and necessary?
Man created the Devil when their God seemingly turned against them. They often don’t stop to think that even if God had made a devil, he couldn’t have made something that wasn’t, first, a part of himself. They say that the Devil tricks while God tests and yet there really is no difference between the two save perception and method. In the bible, it starts out saying that God is the Alpha and the Omega. Both the Yin and the Yang; the beginning and the end; every side of every dichotomy we know. The great dreamer and imaginer; genius and insane. And, we were made in his image; every single one of us. We exist in between light and darkness and were made to walk the twilight paths.
Those with negative perceptions see good as bad because they think it prevents them from being what they should be, and yet if they saw the bad as good through positivity, they’d understand that it only ever does serve that greater purpose. The only thing at war with them is their own nature inside of themselves that they fail to understand and try to fight against, not understanding that the good people have already went through that fight too many times to count and have chosen to remain good. In fact, many of them have turned their backs on the world just to find peace of mind, as contradictory as that is.
People are great at sticking their heads in the sand and pretending not to notice the huge ass elephant in the room. Kind of hard to keep pretending not to notice when that same elephant is rampaging in circles and tearing down the walls and shitting all over. The way I figure it: it’s a long ride through eternity by yourself and so to stave off insanity, God set in motion a system of checks and balances that would run itself and avidly work to keep the insanity at bay and found his balance between light and dark at a certain tightrope width of space where all of life was created. That means that the dark is just as needed as the light and we should respect that; but just as much as we should respect it, we should also constantly fight against it.
In the past, we have fought against it many ways until people finally gave up and stopped trying. If we had done that sooner, maybe we would have gotten to this point of our evolution sooner. Who knows. I like to think that everything happens for a reason and certainly there was good reason to wait for all of this technology to be made. Sense and reason will win out; it is possible for each person to find balance if properly directed in life and we should know enough by now to avoid the pitfalls we keep falling into such as government, religion, etc. We need to stay the fuck away from organized groups. As least until we learn how to maintain who we are within those groups instead of folding to peer pressure and teach our children to do the same.
yes, that’s right: there has been a reason for all of the discipline and lies and everything else in life. As harsh as it is, we can still see how hard it is for some people to learn; so those harsh lessons were entirely necessary and will continue to be. We’re pretty hard-headed and stubborn and thinking we know everything at the same time as being entirely gullible and trusting. It’s a funny contradiction. More importantly, we can’t rely on other people to fix us. We have to fix our selves and then show others how to do that same and give them incentive to do so.
I don’t think Satan was ever a bad guy; just largely misunderstood; he even misunderstood himself and his purpose. He is that childish intelligence of God that always seeks to undermine and pervert to get his way and he needs discipline. We are all children at our core and will continue to be as we grow, so it’s important that we tend to those inner children and give them the proper things to grow with. The answer isn’t to go back into ignorance; an impossibility; but to continue striving forward into the future and find our true selves along the way. There ain’t no getting offa this train we on. Not until it reaches its destination or gets destroyed.
Satan is the most evil creature in the universe. He was among God’s finest servants and rebelled wrongfully against God. After doing so he continues to try to lead fools astray into his kingdom of suffering and misery and sin. God will punish those eternally who follow Satan, and His Judgment is just. God created life and rational rules to follow and those who abandon God abandon the source of life, health, happiness, so on. Hell is a place of eternal torment; these are issues to take seriously and this kind of talk about “hell being cozy” is a Satanic lie and unwise statement. Satan’s tyrannical government will be far worse than God’s can ever be. The “freedom” Satan lures people in with leads to painful anarchy. Satan had no right to leave God’s kingdom, but he did have the ability. Sadly, that will cost him an eternity of suffering. Satan did not “sacrifice” for man; he simply wants us to follow along with him unto the destruction he has wrought for himself. He is like the archetypical bad influence that just ends up destroying your life too when you get involved with him. Jesus’ sacrifice was a true one out of love for mankind, restoring the chaos that Satan had a part in bringing about. Those who follow Satan become just as “brainwashed” of sheeple, only to the tune of a different drum.
God is not simply merciful. He exercises Just Judgment. He is the Master of us all since He Created us. Satan is the one judging God, and falsely. He is the one who made war against God and caused war and death. It’s amazing that people are so deluded as to believe that God is responsible for death when Satan brought it into the world. Faithless, evil generations that believe such a thing.
Let’s try something “radical”: how about being traditional and believing what is normal and actual, that God is the hero and good and almighty and all-knowing?
In the 21st century, what’s ‘normal’ for people in the developed world is to accept evolution. You, friend, do not have a claim to ‘normality’. Outside of the US, particularly the South and the Midwest US, you are the abnormal one, the one clinging to ancient superstitions.
Actually that is wrong, the average human involves evolution and god/s into their life. The Jewish/Christian god is very much the objective/hero. The social denial is a facade/trend. It will take a few more generations to follow evolution and that is only possible if there is no major revival.
I’ll try to say what I said more clearly: spitfire denies evolution. In the developed world, where people have access to relatively good education, this is a complete abnormality. You said the average human involves evolution in their ‘life’ – I’ll interpret that charitably, and point out that you must be agreeing with me that it’s abnormal to reject evolution. Particularly in the developed world.
Evil? And what did he to do deserve that adjective? Rebelled wrongfully? God is the kind of guy who kills firstborn babies. God is the kind of guy commanding slaughter, rape and plunder of whole villages. God is exactly the kind of guy against who I find rebellion rightful, in fact, I find it would be my moral imperative to try to stop such a sadistic psycho.
Oh yeah, a supposedly benevolent being will give me infinite punishment for finite sin by torturing me for an eternity. And what will that exactly teach me? Oh yeah, nothing, because I would supposedly be tortured forever.
Any proof of that? No? I didn’t think so.
I agree, I take bible very seriously. That’s why I question it in fear that I might have the wrong interpretation. But now Satan has revealed himself to me and I’m found again. God killed 2.5 million people. Satan killed 10. Which one of them is more likely to have a place of eternal torture? You don’t even have to be a utilitarian to figure it out.
I can give you lots of examples to back up the claim that God’s tyrannical state is bad. Give me an example of Satan doing something to make people miserable. No? I thought so.
Christianity in a nutshell: God sent himself to die as a sacrifice to himself to save us from the punishment that he himself would condemn us to for the flaws he himself designed us with.
You mean like killing the firstborn of Egypt?
War and death? Sounds like god alright. Just add pillage and rape. And homophobia. And misogyny. I suggest you to read up on the following site on all the horrible things in the bible. If you don’t believe they’re from the bible, feel free to check it yourself, I didn’t believe myself either that God is such an evil psychopath: evilbible.com/
I don’t find it normal to believe that somebody who did things God did is good.
Ancient superstitions? That’s offensive and obviously wrong. Believing that you’re going to be lucky if you find a horseshoe is OBVIOUSLY a superstition and ridiculous. Thinking that you can communicate to the creator of the universe by putting your hands together and wishfully thinking is OBVIOUSLY NOT a superstition.
I actually think it’s good to question evolution, as I think it is good to question all beliefs, even the ones with overwhelming evidence backing them up. But it’s another thing to question evolution and another thing to outright dismiss it and ignore the evidence in favor of some “holy” book.
Satan is vain and blind to his own faults. He can not admit any wrong-doing of his own but can only point out his own perceived wrong-doing of others, which he does in shallow mockery of what he rebels against creating the layers of negativity which become evil; a shadow cast by Love’s light, hiding behind the pillars of atoms and cells that look to view said light.
Satan points out the faults in others to glorify himself and place himself above others to say they are no better than him, but he is craftier for getting them to see that when he himself fails to see that those who remain good in spite of his efforts are the craftier for they already understand that there was never really any difference between them at all, and this infuriates and galvanizes Satan to do what he does to prove that he is every bit as great and as terrible as the tower that he found standing over him in form of a parent.
Really, Satan is the ultimate example of the child mentality; running from rules and order for not understanding what drove those before them to make those rules and orders. Those who thought they could do better than nature when nature becomes a part of every thing we do no matter how far we try to remove our selves from it. Running from responsibility and care and worry to focus solely on themselves and how it all affects them, personally.
Intelligent, thoughtful, but conniving in mannerism to reach out to the world for the same things through a clever disguise of a victim that has done no wrong and has been vilified beyond imagine when he himself does the very same in mockery of that ultimate which says certain things should not be. Not ‘can not be’; ‘should not be.’
Instead of being able to admit when they are wrong, some children go to the point of acting out in extreme opposite (in their opinion) of what comes into opposition of them and their desires. The fact is that it isn’t an extreme opposite they’re acting in and it becomes only their opinion that they are for they fail to see how they still use what is taught to them and they still teach those things to others for them to make their own decisions in who and what they wish to be.
We only mirror what we see around us within our selves. If one is stuck in just one perspective, then they’re only going to mirror that one perspective. Satan was the fault that got in that wasn’t a fault at all. He was made to serve a glorious purpose and he became too enamored of himself and that purpose to the point of narcissism and delusions of grandeur beyond his measure; and that was part of the purpose.
In a sense, one could look at Satan’s character and accurately claim there are good parts of it, but the overall character defined by that childish petulance and refusal to accept certain facts of life define what is evil by destroying what is entirely natural to create something infinitely inferior. And, when you look around in society, you can’t claim any less than to see the potential for far greater and people constantly failing to reach it for simply not realizing fully what they’re capable of.
When Satan does finally realize things as he should, he will fully understand his purpose in things and will do what he was meant to do without regret: destroy everything. That in itself is a hard burden to bear when you care more than you will ever let on. And, when that time comes, people will accept it as it was meant to be and Satan will truly know at that point in time what it is meant to finally be accepted for who you are.
He is the ultimate example of living a lie and feeling the need to lie to kick it, just to make friends because at one point he felt inferior and didn’t like it and wanted others to feel what it was like; went overboard. It’s actually very tragic, but not so much that people don’t get to be angry and upset about what he does while praising God for the true miracles that he gave to us.