Good is good and bad is bad (yes morality is really that easy)

Saying discharge here is nothing more than indicating the fact that everything has some causality and energy requirement for changing. If I want to move my arm up I need to have previously stored enough energy in my muscles etc. for that to “discharge” in the act of me raising my arm. What is really “discharging” is energy stored in chemical bonds within and between molecules, such as ATP, and biochemical processes cut the phosphate groups off which releases energy in a potent form, which then passes onto the amino acids and molecular structures nearby and catalyzes them to change, e.g. forming proteins or whatever, which sets off more cascading changes eventually leading to something like “my arm raises up in the air”.

Overly metaphysicizing this process is a bit silly. Discharge is an easy to understand concept once you grasp both the energetic and psychological corollary to that. There is ‘pressure’ in the mind, things that lead to catalyzing changes. Then those changes cause more changes, etc. Often the initial impetus is something experienced that touches upon a part of the neurological structure either housing remembered patterns or touching upon a part of the brain that is already designed to respond in a certain way when touched like that, for example by releasing certain hormones that go on to have many other effects.

Will to power is an overly simplified notion, but a useful one. It can be used in an explanatory manner up to a point, but then it breaks down and becomes inaccurate to reality. Self-valuing is a far superior concept thatn will to power, because as Fixed pointed out every instance of existing requires a huge number of negative valuations just to continue to exist. I negatively value walking into traffic, etc.

Discharge is a subset of the physical-chemical processes underling the body and mind. A surplus must exist, of energy, of sodium ions, whatever it is, for there to be an imbalance. This imbalance can then be activated to cause a change, which can be used to catalyze more changes in chain reactions. That is what we are talking about here. Will to power is the idea that Schopenhauer’s will to life is inadequate because not everything intends to live or even lives according to any such intentions toward living, also some thing choose not to live although Schop tried to spin that in a positive way for hits will to life theory, but anyway. Nietzsche noticed that in things like risk-taking we do not aim to live, we aim to increase power or at least experience power. Power is always relative to some domain in which it can be used or useful. There is no power as such. Will is just another word for intention. SO properly we are talking about intentions to gain specific kinds of powers useful or used in specific kinds of situations/contexts. But why would that even matter? It matters because self-valuing and values are always underlying this.

Intending to gain power in some area would not occur if not for the pre-existence of values, of valuing, and of the fact that the self/being is already always composed before hand of values and of valuings. And structured there by in such a way that its valuings and its values cluster around itself in a by, for, and of itself for its own sake. It acts as if it values its own valuing and as if its own valuing is of value, which of course it most certainly is.

Discharge/will to power occur higher orders up in the process, as specific values are valued. Will to power, so called, is merely the actual INTENTION to achieve values already being valued for some reason (context, etc. of the power-gain being intended) such as “I am hungry” and within that context I gain power by intending to acquire and consume foods. Discharge is then a secondary and more specific biochemical processes of unlocking previously stored energy at the molecular level in order to actualize the intended power-gain, which intended power-gain is itself only a secondary manifestation of the fact that a value is being valued.

No, you’re still making a mess of it. “A necessary pleasure”! :sweat_smile: No, look. When a mass of force of the intellect expends itself, that is an effusion of force. Accompanying this is the ‘escort appearance’ of willing, which is a pressing feeling, very agreeable—in other words, a pleasure (Lust!). And willing is not “willing-in-itself”, but willing-a-goal (willing-to-power). Goal setting and means and end thinking is willing-to-power, which is distinguished from “‘desiring’, striving, demanding” by the affect of commanding (WP 668; cf. BGE 19).

In other words, goal setting is not just required for the discharge, it is itself a discharge! And to say that this discharge, in turn, also requires a goal setting would start an infinite regress.

Power is that which sets values—though it’s not really power, for that would mean freedom, but force or energy:

“How do men attain great strength and a great task? All the virtues and efficiency of body and soul are acquired laboriously and little by little, through much industry, self-constraint, limi­tation, through much obstinate, faithful repetition of the same labors, the same renunciations; but there are men who are the heirs and masters of this slowly-acquired manifold treasure of virtue and efficiency—because, through fortunate and reasonable marriages, and also through fortunate accidents, the acquired and stored-up energies of many generations have not been squandered and dis­persed but linked together by a firm ring and by will. In the end there appears a man, a monster of energy, who demands a monster of a task. For it is our energy that disposes of us; and the wretched spiritual game of goals and intentions and motives is only a foreground—even though weak eyes may take them for the matter itself.” (WP 995 whole.)

You are taking the foreground—values—for the matter itself.

Big difference.

No. It’s not about gaining power(s). It’s about “manifest[ing] power”, “the employment and exercise of power”, etc. (WP 619.) This, trying and manifesting power, is what willing is, or more precisely willing is the pressing feeling accompanying the employment and exercise of power—the “inner world” of force or energy (ibid.).

Sure, but then you’re still talking about “acquir[ing force or energy] laboriously and little by little, through much industry, self-constraint, limi­tation, through much obstinate, faithful repetition of the same labors, the same renunciations”. And even this is done by virtue of being a relative monster of energy, or a collection of little such monsters… These are what set those “pre-existent” values, so this is what it means to be “already always composed before hand of values and of valuings.”

To itself, you mean? In any case, I don’t think this is what Jakob has meant by “self[-]valuing” dude… And if it is, I’m quite disappointed (also in how bad he has been at making himself clear).

I’m just gonna be a little snarky here, but it feels like to me you’re talking about what happens when you’re not in complete possession of your own power. It is subconsciously controlling you. So you have tells and such. For some folks it manifests in emotional outbursts.

That is the importance of intentionally good practice when you are in possession of your thoughts, values, and behaviors. Because when things are such that you cannot “possess” them, your practices are what will run on automatic. If you want unplanned fun (the spasmodic, if you will)… you must master the planned fun as soon as you are capable…or the spasmodic (the Dionysian, if you will) ain’t gonna be fun at all.

This is not something God has to worry about because he always has perfect practices, and is always 100% in self-possession of his powers. That’s why he is always happy and joyful, despite also experiencing the appropriate response to a temporal context…tenselessly.

This segues into the other thread, so I’ll take it up over there.

..is ‘pure witnessing’ about feeling good as opposed to bad?

I find, that it’s about being in a certain ‘state of mind’..no thoughts nor feelings involved, no good or bad, no feeling or judging - ambivertness? ..well that’s my view, anyway.
.

..no judging, only being.

I feel like the only way to be in a state of equilibrium and pure joy is if your moral sense is not being triggered because everything is all self=other. That requires you not take responsibility for something that others need to own. Otherwise you’re always gonna be dealing with some kind of dissonance.

Thanks for more evidence
More babbling.

Sorry, nothing you said means anything. So I am not going to bother responding.

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Ollie, you’re always trying to escape, you’ve always been an intellectual escape artist. And a con artist at that. The amount of scheming you pulled last night…
Back to your basic error; the idea that ‘self lightening’ would account for the development from subatomic matter to molecules, to life, from amoeba to ape, from embryo to full grow human, is so eminently anti-logical that it is impossible to argue with. Flat earth level anti-logical. But that goes for more of what you’ve said last night. Like the singularity after the big freeze idea. And then the context you brought it into… I wouldn’t believe you make sense to yourself but by the quote ratatouille you produce under pressure, I just understood that for you thought consists of associations, rather than logical connections. Fits to where you started out back when it was funny.

Fact remains we need the development of WtP into VO for the WtP to really apply to the world. The WtP required an explosion of its logic, not a stripping down. N gave us the bare essence.

I believe it was Parodites who originally called him a first rate second rate scholar.

Imagine using others’ ideas as a shield against your own thinking-need.

Well, let’s start with the development from embryo to full-grown human. The mother lightens herself on the embryo by nurturing it, and after it’s become a baby so does the father (assuming a traditional parenting situation); in fact, after that so do other people, school teachers for instance. And of course during all this time there is the sun:

“If Nietzsche’s language is puzzling, his basic hypothesis is fairly straightforward. It is one later taken up and developed by the French Nietzschean Georges Bataille: namely, that the dynamic force of nature (that which propels growth, sexuality, procreation, struggle, and death) and of culture (production, form-giving, creativity, and play) is the superabundance of energy in the biosphere and the compulsion to expend it. As Bataille puts it, ‘it is not necessity but its contrary, “luxury,” that presents living matter and mankind with their fundamental problems.’ For both Bataille and Nietzsche, the source and archetype of this expenditure is the sun and its prodigality”. (Cox, Nietzsche: Naturalism and Interpretation, pp. 230-31.)

And as for the development from amoeba to ape, radiation—the sun’s, for example—causes genetic mutations that may prove heritable. :wink:

That’s simply the counterpart to the singularity before the Big Bang idea… As I’ve explained to you before, I don’t think either singularity has ever been or will ever be actual; they’re limits, after all. As I’ve said many times, the Big Bang is the beginning that never began and the Big Chill is the ending that will never end. The universe or the whole is an actual singularity—a singular self-lightening that lightens itself into many self-lightenings, including into space-light:

I just realized there may be a (further) misunderstanding at play here. By ‘heavy’, I haven’t necessarily meant “having great weight”, “having a high (specific) gravity”, “having greater than normal mass”, etc. (In other words, I haven’t necessarily meant it literally.) Thus the two most important instances where I used the word on this site in this context are these:

“When power is discharged, of course it doesn’t disappear into nothingness; it is discharged somewhere , which means someplace else is getting charged…”

This contradicts your heat death idea.

And the feeling of power occurs not simply at discharge, but when resistance is overcome. (which is also the attainment of value)

And no, berserking unto someone, or simply something projecting force on something, does not account for structural accumulation, let alone such things as the evolution of the eye, or the womb… Rather, that is all just entropy. It leaves cosmos (order) entirely unexplained.

Not really. First, though, note that I wrote that in early May of 2020, mere days after I first conceived of ‘self-lightening’. But even the relative unkinking of a wave of space means more space emerges.

Resistance to the discharge, yes. The feeling of power is always the feeling of successful discharge.

Again, not really:

Yes, really. Logically.

This goes back to what is required for successful discharge. We’ve been over this. I maintain that among the few discharges untied to resistance in the world (attaining values) is the discharge like defecation, which only finds resistance in the entity. That is why I made that link.

In a football match, to give an example of a higher order, the feeling of power does not result from working ones ass off and losing, but only from overcoming the opponent.

On points 1 and 3 you are unable to defend your position. On point to your defense has been rebutted repeatedly.

Nope! :grin:

Oh, the world… I forgot about that! After all, I have my head in the clouds, and need well-grounded people like you to tell me about “the world”…

No. The resistance in the world, i.e. the collective of all self-lightenings, is the resistance of self-lightening against self-lightening, each resisting the others’ self-lightening and often even counteracting it, making each other “heavier”…

Not unable, just unwilling… I could delve into probability theory again, but find that boring. I’m not trying to convince you; like I said, I think you’re a lost cause, with how desperately you need to believe in meaning, value, life after death, etc.

At this point you’re reduced to smileys… for a good while these have been your greatest intellectual asset, most successful means of discharge.

But yes, the idea of heat death absolutely negates the idea that all discharge will be re-absorbed.

Meaningless babble. No structural logic.
How are is the lightened energy, or whatever you call it, absorbed?
Oh yeah, you skipped that step. As it’s the most complicated step. The only one that requires some thinking.

No, you’ve tried your very best, but proved unable, so linked to a book. Universal cop out.

(VO is not about “belief in value”, you doofus, it observes that valuing is required for discharge as well as structural increase. As for meaning, same thing, both of us deal with it - but only a hypocrite would spam forums with his thoughts and at the same time disclaim meaning as a reason to extract himself from an intellectual confrontation.)

Evidence seems like babbling in two cases. When it’s unclear. But it’s even worse when there’s no desire to understand.

Guys. If all power comes from an infinite whole, it can’t be exhausted, unless the structure stops being open to more of it. More seeking, more opening, more finding.

I don’t think y’all are ready for C.S. Lewis.

Watch out, you guys. Here comes C.S. Lewis the childrens book writer.

C.S. Lewis in one of those guys who christians with an IQ higher than 92 but lower than 106 read.