Good ole religious disobedience

[WW_III_ANGRY]

The fact that women are allowed to talk in church today is an example of how Christianity will bend to outside moral pressure over a long enough time frame. Not necessarily any individuals who old either to be true will be changing, but their children and so on. The irony of course, is that moral pressure is exactly what Christianity tries so hard to apply, particularly to those non believers and to gain consensus and reassurance amongst believers. What does this mean? It can eventually erode, as all religions of the past had. However, there of course is the possibility that it may not and continue to consume lives, enslaving them to a inept incorrect conscious frame of reference for absolutely everything.

[phyllo]

The fact that women are allowed to talk in church today is an example of how Christianity will bend to outside moral pressure over a long enough time frame.

Women played a huge role in early Christianity.

Christianity emerged from patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage, society and government, and, whilst the religion restricted membership of the priesthood to males only, in its early centuries it offered women an enhanced social status and quickly found a wide following among women.

Historians generally agree that women had a major role in the creation of the church. In the first generation of Christianity they had a more decisive and prominent role than they did in later centuries.[citation needed] The historian Geoffrey Blainey writes that women probably comprised the majority in early Christian congregations.[7]

This large female membership likely stemmed in part from the early church’s informal and flexible organization offering significant roles to women. Another factor is that there appeared to be no division between clergy and laity. Leadership was shared among male and female members according to their “gifts” and talents. “But even more important than church organization was the way in which the Gospel tradition and the Gospels themselves, along with the writing of Paul, could be interpreted as moving women beyond silence and subordination.”

Whereas neither the Jewish, nor the Roman family would warm the hearts of a modern feminist, the early Christians were sympathetic to women. Paul himself insisted in his early writings that men and women were equal. His letter to the Galatians was emphatic in defying the prevailing culture, and his words must have been astonishing to women encountering Christian ideas for the first time: ‘there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Jesus Christ’. Women shared equally in what is called the Lord’s Supper or Eucharist, a high affirmation of equality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Church_history

[WW_III_ANGRY]

@phyllo

The fact that women are allowed to talk in church today is an example of how Christianity will bend to outside moral pressure over a long enough time frame.

Women played a huge role in early Christianity.

Christianity emerged from patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage, society and government, and, whilst the religion restricted membership of the priesthood to males only, in its early centuries it offered women an enhanced social status and quickly found a wide following among women.

Historians generally agree that women had a major role in the creation of the church. In the first generation of Christianity they had a more decisive and prominent role than they did in later centuries.[citation needed] The historian Geoffrey Blainey writes that women probably comprised the majority in early Christian congregations.[7]

This large female membership likely stemmed in part from the early church’s informal and flexible organization offering significant roles to women. Another factor is that there appeared to be no division between clergy and laity. Leadership was shared among male and female members according to their “gifts” and talents. “But even more important than church organization was the way in which the Gospel tradition and the Gospels themselves, along with the writing of Paul, could be interpreted as moving women beyond silence and subordination.”

Whereas neither the Jewish, nor the Roman family would warm the hearts of a modern feminist, the early Christians were sympathetic to women. Paul himself insisted in his early writings that men and women were equal. His letter to the Galatians was emphatic in defying the prevailing culture, and his words must have been astonishing to women encountering Christian ideas for the first time: ‘there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Jesus Christ’. Women shared equally in what is called the Lord’s Supper or Eucharist, a high affirmation of equality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Church_history

Yes, outside of the church. from your link “Until recent times, women were generally excluded from episcopal and clerical positions within the Christian churches, however great numbers of women have been influential in the life of the church - from contemporaries of Jesus, to subsequent saints, theologians, doctors of the church, missionaries, abbesses, nuns, mystics, founders of religious institutes, military leaders, monarchs and martyrs.”

[phyllo]

Your first sentence …“The fact that women are allowed to talk in church” … suggests that women have not had any say in the church. If you are only referring to women being priests and ministers, then it’s true that there was (and still is) a restriction.

The Nietzscheans would say that it’s a religion of slaves and women which emasculates men. But I digress. Carry on.

[WW_III_ANGRY]

@phyllo

Your first sentence …“The fact that women are allowed to talk in church” … suggests that women have not had any say in the church. If you are only referring to women being priests and ministers, then it’s true that there was (and still is) a restriction.

The Nietzscheans would say that it’s a religion of slaves and women which emasculates men. But I digress. Carry on.

I am referring to this being a direct infringement of the admonition of Biblical direction.

1 Corinthians 14:34 “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.”

1 Corinthians 14:35
If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

[AutSider]

1 Corinthians 14:34 “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.”

1 Corinthians 14:35
If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

I don’t like the bible but I agree with that. Women take the fun out of everything with their incessant conversations about irrelevant things. They’re women, no thoughts they think or words they speak will ever be relevant. It’s nature’s mistake they aren’t born mute, but then again mother nature is also a female so no surprise there, right?

[Uccisore]

@WW_III_ANGRY

The fact that women are allowed to talk in church today is an example of how Christianity will bend to outside moral pressure over a long enough time frame.

Phyllo is right. If you’re point is that in the early days of Christianity women were there to be seen and not heard, and the Catholic Church capitulated to the awesome wrath of the American sexual revolution, you are confused about history.

That said, Protestantism will certainly bend to moral pressure. Why wouldn't it?  If the maxim is "Me and my Bible" then any doctrine of how to interpret a passage will only survive as long as the person reading it. People try to twist the Bible to suit their personal agenda every day, and some aspects of Christendom has less of a reason to resist that pull than others.

As to women not being allowed to speak in Church…have you ever been in a Church? I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise to you, but…men aren’t allowed to speak either. You sit there and listen, and sing. Far as I can tell, that’s how it was when the Bible was written too. If the Bible is saying specifically that women shouldn’t’ speak in Church, then apparently specifically women talking during services was a problem that needed to be addressed. How are you picturing an ancient Church service proceeding such that women (or anyone) speaking during it would have a place?

[Moreno]

Catholicism has bent also. I would guess even the Eastern Churches have also.

[Uccisore]

@Moreno

Catholicism has bent also. I would guess even the Eastern Churches have also.

Yeah, mere existence of the Catholic Church would be an example of bending, and Popes do change things.   Still, changes comes a lot slower and is much more likely to be a product of principle when it's based on tradition.

[James_S_Saint]

@Uccisore

@Moreno

Catholicism has bent also. I would guess even the Eastern Churches have also.

Yeah, mere existence of the Catholic Church would be an example of bending, and Popes do change things.   Still, changes comes a lot slower and is much more likely to be a product of principle when it's based on tradition.

“Follow the spirit”, not so much the laws. “Laws make nothing perfect”.

[WW_III_ANGRY]

@Uccisore

@WW_III_ANGRY

The fact that women are allowed to talk in church today is an example of how Christianity will bend to outside moral pressure over a long enough time frame.

Phyllo is right. If you’re point is that in the early days of Christianity women were there to be seen and not heard, and the Catholic Church capitulated to the awesome wrath of the American sexual revolution, you are confused about history.

That said, Protestantism will certainly bend to moral pressure. Why wouldn't it?  If the maxim is "Me and my Bible" then any doctrine of how to interpret a passage will only survive as long as the person reading it. People try to twist the Bible to suit their personal agenda every day, and some aspects of Christendom has less of a reason to resist that pull than others.

As to women not being allowed to speak in Church…have you ever been in a Church? I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise to you, but…men aren’t allowed to speak either. You sit there and listen, and sing. Far as I can tell, that’s how it was when the Bible was written too. If the Bible is saying specifically that women shouldn’t’ speak in Church, then apparently specifically women talking during services was a problem that needed to be addressed. How are you picturing an ancient Church service proceeding such that women (or anyone) speaking during it would have a place?

I have been to church so many times I could practically repeat an entire Catholic mass for you. Went every Sunday of my life until I was a teenager. I also attended a year of non denominational services as well as some Baptist and Evangelist churches.

There was a bit of an uproar when females were first allowed to read scripture allowed during mass at the Catholic church I attended. Uproar is harsh, but I would say there was some side comments of how it was becoming ungodly… Now there are female priests! Ha!

If God was going to present his word in a text that would be the only way for us humans 2,000 years later to be able to identify what God wanted, the writing of the Bible should not be providing specific instructions to people who lived for only 50a.d to 200a.d. If so that is extremely shortsighted on God’s part and just indicative of the big lie of Christianity, that it is a false religion made by men, and god “God” or gods have had no say in it’s direction, or it’s Bible, the supposed “word of God”

[Uccisore]

@WW_III_ANGRY

I have been to church so many times I could practically repeat an entire Catholic mass for you. Went every Sunday of my life until I was a teenager. I also attended a year of non denominational services as well as some Baptist and Evangelist churches.

There was a bit of an uproar when females were first allowed to read scripture allowed during mass at the Catholic church I attended. Uproar is harsh, but I would say there was some side comments of how it was becoming ungodly… Now there are female priests! Ha!

If God was going to present his word in a text that would be the only way for us humans 2,000 years later to be able to identify what God wanted, the writing of the Bible should not be providing specific instructions to people who lived for only 50a.d to 200a.d.

Why not? You seem to be mixing a Protestant understanding of what the Bible is for with your observations of how Catholics behave.  What's more, how do you know this isn't so?  Just because the Church changes how they do things doesn't mean what the Bible says in some area is false- maybe when the Church diverges from the Bible, they are wrong.