Gossip

What evolutionary psychologists have to say about gossip, I do not know.

But thinking about it, and how language can be seen as a more sophisticated form of grooming, some preliminary thoughts occur to me:

  1. Gossip is a form of grooming which also serves the added purpose of establishing one’s place within the group.
    Through the discussion of another, or others, the individual discovers his/her own place within the group and, in the process, builds a reputation and identity by choosing an opinion and an attitude towards them.

  2. No matter how high-minded the topic purports to be, even philosophy, is gossip, as it occupies itself with who said what and what he meant by it and where one stands in relation to what was said.

Perhaps gossip can be viewed as a defense mechanism:

By reducing a competitor’s social value (like, oh, my god! Janet has crabs! OR fuck man, bill’s girlfriend just left him for cheating), you decrease their mating value…and thus increase your own. Basically, subtractive competition.

Further, by non-subtractive gossip, you demonstrate worth (and thus fitness) by seeming omniciscent.

In terms of same-sex gossip, the most common form, you warn others about potential hazards, while learning about potential hazards from them.

Yes, this is what I meant in my first comment.

One defines or describes another and his quality and, in so doing, insinuates his own.
But gossip need not be negative – even if it mostly is directly or indirectly.

We notice this even in these ‘philosophical exchanges’ where another’s mind is evaluated and characterized, in relation to how it perceived reality – often his biography is used to explain his ‘errors’, when we want to distance ourselves from them and make sure that the other(s) knows where we stand.
We do not psychoanalyze or seek out ulterior motives behind the mind we agree with or the one representing a conforming to the status quo viewpoint.

For instance Nietzsche’s comments concerning women must be confronted by making all sorts of suppositions concerning his sexual potency and experience, as if this alone contradicts them.
In this way the speaker lets the observer(s) know that he does not ascribe to this viewpoint, and that he is more inclined toward the more popular or culturally acceptable norm.

He is displaying his sexual ‘health’ by exposing his mental ‘health’.
Health here being an expression of disease – as in how uneasy one feels in relation to the environmental conditions.

The one most fit will be the one the least put-off by circumstances, that is the one most in harmony with them.

Nod. It seems plausable. But then, what of the other aspects of gossip? I think there’s something to be said beyond personal gain. I dunno how familiar you are with evolutionary psychology, but usually, things of the greatest value have two benificial component types: Those for personal gain, and those for group gain.

So…whats the group gain for gossip? It seems to me that something so continuous would be viewed as a psychological adaptation — or at least the offshoot of one. Which means, somehow, the entire group benifits, and the behavior is encouraged.

But what could it be? Possibly an extension of the base idea behind the resolution of the Prisoner’s Dilema? Or some other reason?

I knew an Indian (from India) that once told me that they have a saying about gossip.

The saying goes: When you gossip about others you make yourself worse than those you gossip about.

The idea is that you’re enjoying the folly of other in a purposeful manner.

So, it appears that gossip does act as a mechanism to raise one’s status in a secretive manner.

Gwyllgi

I don’t make such a clear-cut distinction.

All gain is personal.
The group gains when the individual’s identity and self-interests become entangled and determined by group dynamics, making it associate its personal gains with group gains or when its individual gains come directly from the group, upon which it has become dependant.

Mr. Predictable

I agree, but I also see another preliminary motive for gossip.

The individual searches for its own place within the group. He establishes where he stands in relation to others, before he decides to act or to enhance this position.

I see in gossip an element of reconnaissance.

thats well and good…but you yourself just said that group interactions become important in self gain. I think, with such a social activity as gossip, there has to be some group gain that benifits the individual THROUGH his group’s prosperity. More on this at 11 (EST)

According to an interesting article in Discover Magazine, researchers have demonstrated that dolphins gossip, too. I don’t have a link to this fascinating story since it’s in the (gasp! :astonished: ) old-school paper version, but it goes like this: researchers have identified specific dolphin sounds that they’ve deduced correspond to names. The dolphins consistently use these phrases in their interactions. The same scientists were surprised to find that the dolphins would use the names of other dolphins even when they aren’t around, essentially “gossipping” about them.

This would lead me to postulate that the desire to gossip is part of the innate social structure of social mammals. Including us.

Is this true?
Interesting.

I didn’t know there was a species, other than man, that could use a symbol for another.

I think it was probably last months Discover. 2 months old at the oldest- the issue with Einstein on the cover. Dolphins are pretty damned sharp.