recently read article about green bay, wi republican wanting to arm teachers to combat the ever growing issue of school violence.
i am completely against this idea, but i want to know what the entire spectrum of ideas and justifications (for or against) that are out there.
I had a teacher in high school we used to call drunken
duncan. By the third period she would be trashed and
was practically unconscious by the 6th. Would
you really want a teacher like that with a gun?
I have had several teacher over the years who were
mentally unbalanced, (seriously) I don’t want guns
in schools, period.
Kropotkin
I would love a link to that article. I can’t believe that a majority of teachers want guns. Even with a proper holster (the kind that can only release the gun from the owner’s hand - theoretically) - that’s a shooting (maybe of a teacher) waiting to happen.
I understand fences, gates, and metal detectors, but if we’re finally at the point where we have to arm teachers in order to teach, I want off the bus. That’s a whole lot too much. Actually, even the discussion of such crap is too much
Smacks of political haymaking, tent. Can’t believe that many take it seriously.
Yeah, I know. Some political hack who is saying I’m more protective than you. But is this all that is left? It isn’t that we don’t have some serious whackos out there, but if the social fabric is this far gone, we need to re-think what the hell we’re doing. The polarities in this country are spinning us into some truly frightening places.
I looked this up. He’s got no traction on this. Just a juicy news story. Or nonstory.
I read that the idea is to keep the gun in a locked box.
I think that it makes sense to have a weapon, because when you don’t you’ll wish that you did.
However, I think that the teachers would have to all be evaluated psychologically before they could be approved to have one on hand. I can’t imagine that all the teachers in the country are stable enough to be trusted with a weapon.
I think that the matter has a far more simple solution and that should be the placement of a sealed checkpoint at the front of all schools. You have a door operated by a guard in a bubble and someone out front by a metal detector.
That setup would be tough to beat.
The number of people who can handle a hand gun is miniscule compared to the number of people who THINK they can use a handgun. I can’t think of a worse scenario than someone who has fired one wheel or a clip and now think they’re capable of actually pulling the trigger on another human being.
Mr P - I hadn’t read that. I was supposing that they would be carrying. That would be nuts, in my view. But I am now left to wonder in just what scenarios a gun in a locked box would be useful. I keep a simple cable lock on my deer rifle - I wouldn’t want to rely on being able to shoulder it quickly enough to face a sudden threat, but that’s not what that weapon is for. If the teacher can get to the box quickly at all, it’s vulnerable to theft. I’d like to see the lock that a determined group of punks can’t foil. I’ve known kids that could break into the school itself, and did so. Big brass lock. Fahgetaboutit.
Some schools have the setup you describe. I agree - simpler and more effective.
And tent - yours is a telling point. You’d be relying on people to not only train with a handgun, but to keep the proficiency up. And then potentially shoot a child - maybe their own student. This student may be a hopeless punk, but it’s not so easy to shoot one. Not that I have tried. But let’s think this through. It does no good to point a gun at someone unless you know you can pull the trigger (accuracy counts, too). And it can make things much worse if you can’t.
Police have extensive gun training, must keep up their skills, and also are trained to recognise the variables. And still shit happens.
This is a zany idea. But no one’s really listening, as far as I can tell.
Except us.
That’s true.
If you don’t use the gun, then it’s the other guy’s gun.
Well said.
Faust,
I can only assume that the box idea would work if an alert were given, then the teacher could defend the door of the classroom. It wouldn’t work during a surprise.
Seriously though it doesn’t take much to shoot a gun at close range. If you’re even moderately calm you’ll hit your target.
I have shot a gun at close range. Piece of cake. But the target wasn’t wearing a sweatshirt.
Yes, you have to want to shoot, but I bet that at least some teacher could do it out of all the school, and it would be a good thing.
Yeah, I’m sure of that. I’m just not sure of most of them. I think I’m not understanding this proposal in its entirety. My worry is that putting guns into ther hands of the wrong people is a recipe for disaster. The actual threats that have prompted this are rare, even though it doesn’t seem like they are. But the gun is always there.
I’m not anti-gun, of course. Or anti-shooting perps. But you have to want the gun, too. Just forcing teachers to be armed doesn’t seem effective.
I generally agree, but it must be very horrible for people to know that gunmen are slowly working their way towards yor location and there’s nothing that you can do, but die at the hands of some nut. Also, the guns might act in such a way as to make people think before entering.
It’s a tough issue.
Faust,
I don’t know that I would take advice from someone who is too frightened to have his position criticized. To me, Hitler comes to mind. Although Hitler may have been intelligent, he may not have actually presented a reasonable argument.
QED
Eh, Mr. P?
“Jenkins - YES YOU JENKINS !!! - stop talking while I’m trying to explain future perfect…”
“Huh…?”
“I SAID STOP TALKING !!! ARE YOU DEAF BOY…?”
“Huh…?”
“RIGHT - THAT’S IT.”
[size=75][Tabula whips out Glock - adopts wide-legged stance][/size]
“PUT YOUR TONGUE DOWN AND STEP AWAY.”
“Huh…?”
[size=150]BLAM[/size]
“THE NEXT ONE WILL BE IN YOUR WRITNG HAND BOY !!!”
While I’m all for empowering teachers… You’ve gotta wonder if something else hasn’t gone wrong when I need lethal force capability to control a class of teenagers…
There are a whole bunch of things you can do, if you are not paralyzed by fear, and a gun won’t really remove that fear will it - only become a focus for it. A teacher hears a shot or shots in another part of the school and instead of doing the sensible thing, and getting his kids either out of the building, or into a position of cover… He runs to the gun cabinet, fumbles and curses with his keys, drops them, finally opens it, jams in a mag - just as all these other hyped up, scared out of their minds teachers are doing and bingo - The halls are suddenly jam-packed with trigger-happy teachers… 
Empowering is a question of quantity, not quality, thus whenever done for the sake of quality compensation, leads to a vicious power-struggle which treats the symptem and not the cause.
Media and culture are the real issue.