I saw someone write the other day: “Hail Hitler”.
I wonder, as the world has contemplated what happened under the Hitler regime for half a century, how can there still be someone (or persons, for I know he is not alone) who can say such a thing? I can understand the men who worked under him and were entralled by his charisma, but we are talking of people who never met the man and yet still say: Hail Hitler", in a time when the name is almost synonymous with “monster”.
One theory that seems interesting is that they are frustrated minds who despise their selves. But since I see the same people say: “Hail Caesar, Hail Nietzsche, Hail, Hail Hail…” well, it makes me think that perhaps they are just natural born followers.
People support Bush…
Are you really that surprised?
If you want I can lay out the parallels…
Vested interest, I say.
I was in Italy when the last elections took place. After Moore’s movie came out and they saw it and then the results came, it left them wondering how could there be a connection. “How could Americans elect the guy in Moore’s film?” seemed to be their question. Bush was helped by many other circumstances, including an ongoing war and a fresh memory of Sept 11. So was Hitler helped by his circumstaces, such as the Versailles pact and the economic debale of the 1920’s, so that I can understand how people seek guidance in such times and find it in unlikely places, even if I do consider any comparassion of Bush to Hitler but a gross exageration. I can understand the common fella in 1933 hoping for Hitler. I cannot understand any fella who backs his Leader after the Nuremberg Trials, and that is why I am perplexed that people are unashamed to say:
“Hail Hitler”.
theres your answer.
Just read my signature; then you may be able to understand why I am proud to be a natural born obeyer, at least.
What you’re really asking is: how can it be that there are still some people who aren’t brainwashed by anti-Nazi propaganda?
Did not Nietzsche say that the so-called “highest men”, the “good and just”, would call his overman a devil?
Just ask yourself: what is intrinsically wrong with genocide? The true, but nihilistic, answer is: “nothing”. The common, slave-moral answer is: “everything!”
The inverse of this question is: what is right with genocide? The true, but nihistic, answer is: “nothing.” The rare, master-moral answer is: “everything!”
“The weak and the failures shall perish: first principle of our love of man. And they shall even be given every possible assistance.”
[Nietzsche, The Antichristian, section 2.]
“The great majority of men have no right to existence, but are a misfortune to higher men. I do not yet grant the failures the right. There are also peoples that are failures.”
[The Will to Power, section 872.]
Heil Nietzsche!
I think that some people are lost and desperately looking for meaning in their lives. Couple that with an already present racist attitude and you have more-or-less the same cocktail that Hilter used to rise to power in the first place.
I think that there is definately a type of person who is more willing to listen to such wild musings.
Losers, all of them, but it resonates quite strongly with some.
I think it depends on the context. Was this an intelligent person, with real reasons for his hailing? Or was it some punk trying to be different from everybody else?
I can see no logical basis for hailing hitler at the present time, so I bet the guy was just an idiot looking for a reaction.
The parallels to Hitler and Bush are no where near as good as the ones between the Dem’s and the Weinmar Republic, which was so stupid it allowed for a Hitler. By the way, I’m not e Repub or a Dem…
The Weimar Republic was a constitution, not a political party.
Also, since the U.S. Constitution doesn’t present a very close parallel to that government, in particular by not allowing for emergency powers or martial law, we can’t really say how close the parallels are between Hitler and Bush. Bush has not had the opportunities that Hitler did. If he had, who’s to say what he would have done with them?
Neo-Nazism is the latest trend in right-wing fashion. The autumn-winter collection includes green apparel, devotional swastikas and howling chants.
Seriously, neo-Nazism is as reactionary as any other militant group and it is comprised of PoR-like psychological types. I’m not particularly well versed in borderline separatist groups, but I do feel that their vast majority is an off-shoot of some primeval resentment or misanthropy. Most of them are based on some form of negation, centred around intolerance and doubled with a shot of youthful stupidity.
“Heil Hitler†? Hitler – the echo of one’s own resentment.
The Weimar Republic (Deutsches Reich) was an estasblished Republic that parallels the naivete of the current Dem’s. Both of a mind so open their brains fall out.
Hello Sawellios:
Just read your signature? You mean this?
“That in which men and women of the nobility excel others and which gives them an undoubted right to be rated higher consists in two arts ever more enhanced through inheritance: the art of commanding and the art of proud obedience.— Now wherever commanding is part of the business of the day (as in the great mercantile and industrial world) there arises something similar to those families “of the nobility,” but they lack nobility in obedience, which is in the former an inheritance from the feudal ages and will no longer grow in our present cultural climate.”
[Nietzsche, HATH 440.]
Ahh yes. But that is Nietzsche’s opinion. Why do you suppose he is right in the veredict of history? Do you really believe that those who excel others are simply so because they have mastered the “art” of command and the “art” of “proud” obedience? Before I give you my own opinion, since Nietzsche can be understood and misunderstood on so many levels, I wonder what do you believe those who excel “command” and what do you think they “obey”? Perhaps it is here that history find those who excel and those who simply Hail.
I am not asking “how can it be that there are still some people who aren’t brainwashed by anti-Nazi propaganda?”, but how can Nazi propaganda still brainwash people into anachronisms such as “Hail Hitler”?
But please spare me of Nietzsche. I find it disgusting when people use quotations of his books as if they are quoting St Paul to me, especially since in my opinion it makes Nietzsche roll in his own grave. And besides it is an admission that one lacks any original thoughts. That one is like a basket in which others put in the shit. What can drive an ego to have such self-contempt?
— Just ask yourself: what is intrinsically wrong with genocide? The true, but nihilistic, answer is: “nothing”. The common, slave-moral answer is: “everything!”
O- So much for overcoming nihilism. Frank killed 2.4 million jews in his time in Poland. Why, if there was nothing inherently wrong with genocide, did every member of the prisions at Nuremberg had trouble to psychologically accept the documentary evidence? Why did Frank turn to God at the end? Even a cynic like Goering pleaded that he had no idea. Why such pleas if in the face, if it is true as you say, that there is nothing inherently wrong with it?
One does not need to be a slave or moral to denunciate genocide. He who does not denounce it is, in my mind, inhuman, or less than human. I don’t think that it should be those who have normal aversions to genocide who should explain this stuff, but those who lack such aversion. Why can’t you find any intrinsic wrong in genocide when others have? Try to give a real reason and stay away from simplistic stuff as:"Well because overman…noble…they…rabble…herd…us…good Nordic children of blond beasts…blah, blah…
— The inverse of this question is: what is right with genocide? The true, but nihistic, answer is: “nothing.” The rare, master-moral answer is: “everything!”
O- Let’s us strip the varnish off your question: “What is justifiable with sending millions of jews, men, women and children to a concentration camp, where you strip them of clothes, shoes, dignity, then march them into chambers; the children you simply toss within, and then you poison them, while others you work as slaves, slowly starving them, driving some to the point of cannibalism?” Cause that is what you mean under the euphenisms.
You have the nihilist answer:“Nothing”. That is just pure fantasy. The true nihilist is he who does this only to immediately take his own life. hell, he might do without all of the trouble and simply kill himself. “Nothing” is not the nihilistic answer but the fanatical one.
— Heil Nietzsche!
O- Why?
Hello Xunzian"
— I think that there is definately a type of person who is more willing to listen to such wild musings.
Losers, all of them, but it resonates quite strongly with some.
O- I think you’ve something there. Reminds me of a book I read once on the frustrated mind and their connection with mass movement.
Could it be that Nazis offered somewhat the same as religions? Even now, you look at Sawellios and his out-of-control quoting of Nietzsche, and like I told him, it reminds me of christians that come to my door and quote me St Paul’s letters!
One says:“Praise the Lord”, the other “Hail Hitler”.
Could it be the same person uttering these; or the same type of person?
“Truth” is will to power. The only other truth is nihilistic truth. As I have already implied, master-moral “truth” is not true, just as little as slave-moral “truth”. And yet I endorse master morality, not nihilism. Why? Will to power. The will to truth is simply a form of the will to power.
The word here translated as “nobility” is Geblüt, “blood”.
Let me speak for myself; or even better, let Nietzsche speak for myself (the will to “originality” is merely a form of the slave’s will to “freedom”):
The irony is that your brainwashed brain thinks that people who are not anti-Nazi must have been brainwashed.
That is, indeed, your opinion.
That is also merely your opinion.
It must be because they were themselved infected with slave morality. Or are you suggesting that this is evidence of an inherently human faculty for discerning “right” from “wrong” (“good” from “evil”)? (If I didn’t hate moving smileys so much I would use one here.)
Yes, in your mind…
Oh, now something is “wrong” with me, right? (See my note about smileys above.)
If I have understood you properly, you are asking me to provide a reason for not finding any intrinsic wrong in genocide… Well, how about: it isn’t there?
What dignity - did they already have dignity?
“[E]very human being, with his total activity, only has dignity in so far as he is a tool of the genius, consciously or unconsciously; from this we may immediately deduce the ethical conclusion, that “man in himself,” the absolute man possesses neither dignity, nor rights, nor duties”.
[Nietzsche, The Greek State.]
So, according to Nietzsche, the genius Hitler first gave the people you mentioned dignity!
You mean, why do I applaud Nietzsche? In this case, for what he wrote. Why? Because I agree with it. I find him a great spokesman of my will. By hailing Nietzsche, I express my joy at envisioning the triumph of my will.
Hail Victory!
There is nothing out of control with my quoting of Nietzsche. If you would read what I post, could read what I post, you would see that what I quote is always to the point, always relevant - and always carefully picked.
Also, I do not come to your door.
On the other hand, Sauwelios, your quotes are like those of a door to door proselytizer because you hold them to be more important because of the person who said them.
Says who?
I haven’t read much of the thread since I posted, but Weimar Republik = Deutsch Reich? Wie? How, I must ask?
1st Reich: Holy Roman Empire.
2nd Reich: Hohenzolleran Prussians (1881-1918)
3rd Reich: Nazi Germany.
Dems and Chamberlains England I can see (I disagree with, but I can kinda see) but Dems and Weimar? Hello Hindenburg! Dude was a raging Conservative. Dems bear no resemblance to any of the pre-Nazi coallition governments of the Weimar Republik.
Sauwelios:
I’ve never read much Nietzsche, and it is perhaps unfair that your take on him is making me uninclined to do so, and inclined to reject everything he wrote a priori. Perhaps I should take what you say as an indication only of your beliefs.
In any case, there is really only one answer to someone who believes as you claim to, and acts on that belief. And it is not an answer in words.
Hello Sawellios:
— “Truth” is will to power. The only other truth is nihilistic truth.
O- WTP is the future of an illusion- a new religion. Nihilistic truth, if such a thing exist is the only truth left. All else is faith.
— As I have already implied, master-moral “truth” is not true, just as little as slave-moral “truth”.
O- Morality is not about truth in the final analysis. It is about a desire for life and life more abundantly. But if they are both empty of truth, in your opinion, how then are you not a moral nihilist?
— And yet I endorse master morality, not nihilism.
O- Really? See above.
— Why? Will to power. The will to truth is simply a form of the will to power.
O- Because you want to believe that it is true rather than lose yourself in a sea of relativity. Between you and the christian, what difference is there?
Yet the question is why believe in Hitler? Why admire that? If there is nothing (nihilism) in your opinion that makes genocide either good or bad, then why will that it be good? Why approve of it by saying Hail Hitler?
— Let me speak for myself; or even better, let Nietzsche speak for myself (the will to “originality” is merely a form of the slave’s will to “freedom”):
Quote:
Resistance—that is the distinction of the slave. Let your distinction be obedience. Let your commanding itself be obeying!
O- How is resistance the distinction of the slave? He that revolts is a master in the wrong position. He that is deposed is a slave who did not yet know his place. To let your distinction be obedience-- your command itself obedience is to be a sheep; to be a true spiritual slave. But I know of other “Born Servants”…
To the good warrior soundeth “thou shalt” pleasanter than “I will.” And all that is dear unto you, ye shall first have it commanded unto you.
O- Only because that which thou hearest is but what thou carriest within thy soul. The command without is an echo of the command which already exists within: Thy ambition…
Let your love to life be love to your highest hope; and let your highest hope be the highest thought of life!
O- Let your love of life (your fear of death?) be your measure of all things. For we don’t live by reason but by hope… Believe, but if you must believe, believe that which is most bizarre and improbable. That the command of Tertullian-- err Nietzsche.
Your highest thought, however, ye shall have it commanded unto you by me—and it is this: man is something that is to be surpassed.
O- Why must man be surpassed? That he may occupy the empty seat of power, left so by the death of God. Place man as God and see man kill man as once God himself killed man…yet man, no man, is or will ever be God. Not Caesar- he was killed by his own. Not Hitler- he had to kill himself. Nor Nietzsche- he died insane.
Feuerbach said that God was a projection of what was best in us. How come our will to power, to become gods, ends with us immitating that which we also projected in God-- our agreession and what is worst in us.
[Thus Spake Zarathustra, Of War and Warriors.]
— The irony is that your brainwashed brain thinks that people who are not anti-Nazi must have been brainwashed.
O- My “brainwashed brain”? I am trying to find why people “Hail” Hitler. It might be because they’re brainwashed, but I don’t believe so. I believe that there are reasons people believe in the things they do…though often out of ignorance. People don’t necessarly have to be brainwashed, but they are certainly misled…
— That is, indeed, your opinion.
O- For a nihilist like you, that has all the truth it will ever attain.
Quote:
And besides it is an admission that one lacks any original thoughts.
— That is also merely your opinion.
O- No. Read again. That is a declaration…
— It must be because they were themselved infected with slave morality.
O- Or it might be that previously they were infected with a master morality. Who’s to tell. But you talk as if conscience is an infection. As if guilt is not human or part of our attributes. yet, seeing the prevalence of this in all castes, in all hiearchies, it seems more reasonable that the loss of a conscience and the adoption of a master morality is the corruption of a human.
— Or are you suggesting that this is evidence of an inherently human faculty for discerning “right” from “wrong” (“good” from “evil”)?
O- At some level, yes.
— Yes, in your mind…
O- Yet what is in my mind makes a whole lot of sense. Hail Hitler is on the other hand should come only with an explanation in this day and age.
— Oh, now something is “wrong” with me, right? (See my note about smileys above.)
O- When the aversion is virtually universal amongst a species, then the exception to the rule can be categorized as perhaps pathological. Nothing wrong with you? Why, I have not argued that you were, but there is something wrong with the belief you hold.
— If I have understood you properly, you are asking me to provide a reason for not finding any intrinsic wrong in genocide… Well, how about: it isn’t there?
O- Then explain the general aversion. “They’re infected with slave morality”? Let me ask you: Would you obey the order to kill your own family? I take it that you are married with kids. But I could be wrong. Is there anyone you love? With your morality, that seems impossible. If you say: “Hitler”, or “Nietzsche, I love Nietzsche”, then I would say that you love the idea in your head of either one. You might love them because they facilitate your WTP, but then so does the christian love his god-- which is to say that you could love no one.
— What dignity - did they already have dignity?
O- Every person has a sense of worth and dignity, in general. Being that we are talking of people who lived still in ghettos, who had a tradition by which they considered themselves the choosen people…well, such persons have a sense of dignity, just as Goering had a sense of dignity. If you lack this sense of dignity, common to the species, how come you’re still alive?
"[E]very human being, with his total activity, only has dignity in so far as he is a tool of the genius, consciously or unconsciously
O- Why do you accept this as true? Some men may dread the danger of being in charge of themselves and their lives, and thus make the ideal a position in which they are but tools in the hands of God or “the genius”.
from this we may immediately deduce the ethical conclusion, that “man in himself,” the absolute man possesses neither dignity, nor rights, nor duties".
O- Dignity and rights/duties (the full distinction is unnecessary) are ideas we possess. Because we have a sense of self worth, which we then project onto others, or Other, we incur, take upon voluntarily, certain duties and claim certain rights, from those which whom we identify. Dignity is a natural instinct, not something our particular biography gives us…
[Nietzsche, The Greek State.]
— So, according to Nietzsche
O- You could have said:“according to God” or “according to the Bible”…it is all like a show of shadows…
— Heil Nietzsche!
O- Why?
— You mean, why do I applaud Nietzsche? In this case, for what he wrote. Why? Because I agree with it. I find him a great spokesman of my will. By hailing Nietzsche, I express my joy at envisioning the triumph of my will.
O- The triumph of your will? Why, in your admiration, then, I take it that you agree that:
1- YOU “with [your] total activity, only [have] dignity in so far as [you’re] a tool of the genius, consciously or unconsciously”
What triumph?..you’re just a tool.
2- YOU “in [yourself],” the absolute man possesses neither dignity, nor rights, nor duties".
What triumph?.. you have no dignity or rights. But if you truly believed this you would end your life and end what is rabble.
3- The master said to his slave: “Resistance—that is the distinction of the slave. Let your distinction be obedience.” the slave, quite the slave, believed what his master told him and believed that he was higher than his station-- that if he did not resist he would not be a slave, when in fact he was ever more the slave. He was raped by the master and yet he showers with his master kisses, happy that he is not a slave…happy that his will has triumphed!