hamas and elections

It seems Palestine had an election and hamas the
palestinian terrorist organization seems to have won
a key role in the new parliament. Hamas the poor man’s
al quada is now helping run the county. bush of course
said the U.S. will not deal with hamas even though they
were legally elected in sanction election. Bush is just mad
he couldn’t steal this election for the conservatives.

Hamas in the parliament. You just can’t make this stuff up.

Kropotkin

Do you think Hamas will pursue a forocious forgein policy of terrorism tourism? i.e. go to all the popular sites around U.S. and Europe and blow them up? Or am I just scare mongering?

But I do have a serious point - do you think Hamas will merely be a politic of violence and more violence toward Is-real??

See, this frightens me. In discussions with an Israeli friend of mine he said that the problem with the Israel situation is that on both sides the extremists are hogging the spotlight. The Palestinian extremists blow themselves up, as opposed to trying to integrate while the Israeli extremists persue draconian punishments. In both cases the middle is rejected.

With Hamas in power, the Palestinian extremists have gained a degree of validity, which can only make matters much worse. And just when the Israeli extremists (Sharon in particular) were shifting more towards the middle.

Bad news, bad bad news.

Colinsign:Do you think Hamas will pursue a forocious forgein policy of terrorism tourism? i.e. go to all the popular sites around U.S. and Europe and blow them up? Or am I just scare mongering?

But I do have a serious point - do you think Hamas will merely be a politic of violence and more violence toward Is-real?"

K: Yes, no, maybe so. Which is to say I have no idea how this
will work. Again to point out, be careful what you ask for, because
you might get it. (Geothe) Bush is bringing democracy to the mid east.
Well we have seen what happened here. It could happen in Iraq where
al quada could get elected into parliment, then what? We try to
overturn democratic elections? Slippery slopes exist here for the west.

Kropotkin

I’m pretty confident this situation with be the pressure cocoker that blows the entire kitchen roof off…perhaps I have been listening and reading too much of the popular press…

Can anyone speculate as to what sort of policies Hamas is likely to put in place in terms of Foreign Policy?

I have been wondering how much the U.S. invasion of Iraq/
actions of the U.S. in the mid east has played in the victory of Hamas.
I suspect more then a little, but that is speculation on my part.

Kropotkin

Hamas just screwed up. It could be the darling as long as it played the “kill the devil” game. But now it will be forced to work with people who reject the extremism. Hamas is now locked into the international community whether it wants to be or not. All the hate Israel sympathizers plus Syria can’t give the Palastinians the financial support needed. They need support from Europe and the US as well. They may bluster and bluff, but ultimately they will be failures in the eyes of their own people and lose what credibility they had as extremists.

Sadly, Xunzian is right in that, in the shortrun, the extremists on both sides are going to react. Hopefully, reason will prevail, but we haven’t seen it up until now…

I told you this was coming…

now watch as the palestinian state declares war on israel and israel returns the favor and decimates the problem. no more palestine. and iran is right after…

but the difference is that this time, hamas is a state

and of course the un will side with the terrorists against israel, but they the un will lose any shred of objectivity or fairness and be exposed for the sham it is… the un goes the way of the league…

-Imp

Impenitent:I told you this was coming…
now watch as the palestinian state declares war on israel and israel returns the favor and decimates the problem. no more palestine. and iran is right after…
but the difference is that this time, hamas is a state…
and of course the un will side with the terrorists against israel, but they the un will lose any shred of objectivity or fairness and be exposed for the sham it is… the un goes the way of the league…

K: I think you mixing and maxing a couple of different things.
Israel and palestine are one thing and you could well be right there.
Iran is a different situation.

The UN, well your hatred of the UN is well known,
most conservatives hate the U.N. with a surprising depth.
It would be a major loss for the world if the UN goes away.
A loss that could cost everyone dearly. Try to think a little long
term for a change and you might understand the value of the
UN. The world you long for, has never existed and could never
exist.

Kropotkin

I would have pasted some quotes, but offering a link seems easier.

For a lot of info, go to haaretzdaily.com/

Just for a turn on, here’s one title :

there might be a bright side in this…

if the international community plays it well, it can force hamas to compromise
because in fact, hamas is in a pretty akward position where it has to take up responsibility and must turn from a reactive into a proactive force

it’s a possibility, although i can’t guess how realistic it is

Willem is right, we could see a moderating change in Hamas as they find out what politics is actually all about…

LOL and the United States of Israel is fair and balanced? LMFAO!

Perhaps the U.N. seems ‘against Israel” to jews and right wing xtians because Israel keeps flouting international law and the U.N. gets sick of being ignored? How many broken resolutions has Israel now? 20 or 30? I’ve lost count. A muslim country breaks one resolution and the United States of Israel has them bombed.

Telll me Impenitent how is that fair? That’s all I want to know. I’m ready and willing to be convinced if you have some information I don’t have.

RE HAMAS AND TERRORISM

Terrorism works – Hamas has learned this from the master teacher. Terrorism is the little guy’s Might is Right philosophy. Hamas did not start terrorism in the Middle East, Bin Laden did not start terrorism in the Middle East, Saddam did not, nor Iran . ISRAEL DID. SO PUT AWAY YOUR FAKE MORAL SUPERIORITY AND FACE THE FACT THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS NOW COPYING YOUR TACTICS If it was good enough for the jews; its good enough for the arabs and muslims. GET OVER IT!

The King David Hotel bombing 1946 – 91 people were killed (mostly civilians) but the men responsible not only avoided just punished, they were elected as Prime Ministers. This was part of an ongoing terrorism campaign against the British occupiers – SOUND FAMILIAR?

If you are worried about having Hamas ‘terrorists’ as politicians, look no further than some of the Fathers of Middle East Terrorism.

PRIME MINISTER, D. BEN-GURION.
War Criminal. like Hitler, gave the orders that others carried out.

PRIME MINISTER, Y. RABIN.
War Criminal. In 1948 (on instruction from Ben Gurion) ethnically cleansed some 70,000 Palestinians from Lydda and Ramleh. This included the massacre of several hundred resident civilians (to get them moving). In 1967 Rabin ordered the ethnic cleansing of some 5,000 from the villages of Emwas, Beit Nuba and Yalou and the dynamiting and bulldozing of their homes.

PRIME MINISTER, M. BEGIN.
Leader of the terrorist gang Irgun. Responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre, the bombing of the King David Hotel (above) etc.

PRIME MINISTER, Y. SHAMIR.
Operations commander of the terrorist Stern Gang. Together with Stern proposed a war-time alliance with Adolf Hitler and the establishment of a totalitarian Jewish state. Responsible (with Began) for the Deir Yassin massacre. The organiser of two infamous assassinations: the killing of Lord Moyne, the British Minister Resident for the Middle East, on 6 November 1944; and the slaying of Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN’s special Mediator on Palestine, on 17 September 1948.

PRIME MINISTER, E. BARAK.
Assassin. In 1973, assassinated three Palestinian leaders in Beirut, including the poet Kemal Nasser, while dressed as a woman. He admitted that if he were born a Palestinian, he would be a ‘terrorist”.

PRIME MINISTER, A. SHARON.
War Criminal. Presided over the massacres of some 2-3,000 civilians at the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps in Beirut. Founded Unit 101 (a notorious death squad within the Israeli Defense Force). For many years, commanded cross-border Unit 101 raids, for example, the 1953 massacre at Qibia (Kibya) where civilians were blown up while inside their houses.

The lesson these people have taught the Middle East is that terrorism pays.

[size=92]FTR: I’m not anti jewish nor anti Israel. I am, however, totally against Israel’s double standards, lies, deception and criminal policies [/size]

I think Hamas will end up looking like the IRA – a stuggling political wing and a behind-the-scenes military wing that hopefully will be encouraged to put their weapons down (if Israel does the same)

Yes, the leaders did commit atrocities km, but so did the Arabs and their leaders. Geez, and you claim I am one sided.

Again, here is the other side.

What about Arab atrocities against Jews?
Rosh Zurim Settlement, Gush Etzion

Photo © Jack Hazut

Rosh Zurim Settlement, Gush Etzion

Violence by Arabs against the Jewish civilian population of Palestine was a periodic reality. During the Mandate period, whenever Arab dissatisfaction reached a peak, or when anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic Arab leaders needed to provoke the British authorities, rioting and Jewish casualties were created. Major rioting flared in Palestine during 1920-21, in 1929, and during the Arab Revolt of 1936-39. This was not so different from the experience of Jews all over Europe and was part of the motivation for creating a Jewish state where Jews could control their own security.

The day after the UN partition resolution of November 29, 1947, violence against Jewish civilians began to escalate. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. By the end of the second week, 93 Arabs, 84 Jews and 7 Englishmen had been killed and scores injured. From November 30, 1947 to February 1, 1948 427 Arabs, 381 Jews and 46 British were killed and 1,035 Arabs, 725 Jews and 135 British were wounded. In March alone, 271 Jews and 257 Arabs died in Arab attacks and Jewish counter­attacks. These were not military operations, but terrorism against civilian targets intended to achieve political aims for the Arabs who were dissatisfied with the United Nations partition plan.

In February 1948 there was a bombing on the 1st in Jerusalem against the Palestine Post building (later renamed the The Jerusalem Post) which killed six people and injured dozens. Then on February 22nd, three booby-trapped trucks positioned in Ben-Yehuda Street exploded, destroying four large buildings, killing 50 and injuring more than 100. On March 11, a car bomb exploded in the courtyard of the Jewish Agency building, killing 12 people, injuring 44, and causing extensive damage.

Arab acts of hostility prior to statehood reached their peak in March. Arabs controlled all the inter-urban routes. The road to Jerusalem was blocked, settlements in the Galilee and the Negev were also cut off and daily attacks were perpetrated on convoys. In the four months after the UN resolution, some 850 Jews were killed throughout the country, most of them in Jerusalem or on the road to the city.

On April 13, 1948, Arabs set mines in the road in the Sheik Jarrah area to block a convoy of 10 vehicles – trucks, buses and ambulances – carrying supplies, nurses, doctors, scientists, and patients to Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus. In the attack, 78 were killed and their bodies mutilated. Dozens are wounded. British soldiers delayed intervention in the attack for 6 hours while the killing continued. The hospital was cut off from Israel until it was recovered after the Six Day War in June 1967.

The largest Arab atrocity of the war was on May 13, 1948, the massacre of dozens of surrendering defenders, including some twenty women, at Kfar Etzion in the Etzion Bloc of settlements (Gush Etzion) just north of Hebron, in the territory allocated to the Arabs under the UN partition plan. The Etzion Bloc had already seen a massacre in January 1947 when a Haganah platoon of 35 soldiers sent to help them with medical supplies and ammunition was massacred by hundreds of Arab militants. Their stripped, mutilated bodies were found the next day by a British patrol.

The final battle for Gush Etzion took place between May 12-14, 1948. Massive, heavily armed enemy forces overran the Jewish positions. A handful of exhausted defenders, equipped only with light arms and very little ammunition could not withstand the attacking forces. On Thursday, May 13th, Kfar Etzion fell, its defenders killed, most of them slaughtered by Arab rioters after the collapse of the defense. Gush Etzion was destroyed in the aftermath – everything of value was removed, then the buildings were reduced to rubble. Hundreds of thousands of trees in the orchards – individually planted by the Jewish farmers – were uprooted.
Sources and additional reading on this topic:

* The 1948 War
* War of Independence
* Hadassah Medical Organization History
* American Newlyweds in Israel, 1948
* The Etzion Bloc
* Gush Etzion Revisited
* The History of Gush Etzion
* Gush Etzion (Etzion Bloc)

Just wait, when the economic aid from the US, UN and Israel that comes to the area dries up. The Arab World is notorious for not helping their brethren, except to reward the families of homicide bombers. Hamas will probably declare war against Israel when they cannot resolve the problems in the area. Hell, they cannot even grow the same crops the settlers grew in Gaza. Honor and religion are valued, not the pragmatics aspects of living.

fair? lol… do you honestly think I give a shit about your (or anyone else’s)idea of fair? fairness is a warm gun.

the war is going to escalate. big time.

sitting around holding hands, meditating, singing hippy peace love bullshit songs, chanting communist dogma isn’t going to “save” the world.

having peace talks with those whose only idea of peace is your death is a waste of breath - and that cuts either way…

viva la revolution!!!

-Imp

km_2,

How about the fact the Arab World violated UN resolutions to begin with in 1948. Did you forget, selective memory perhaps.

Israel, Jews in particular have a right to defend themselves after thousands of years of discrimination and massacres.

Nearly forgot, The David Hotel was bombed because the Brits refused the Holocaust survivors entry into the land. These survivors were ill and penniless. The Jews in Israel were attempting to give aide to their brethren, something Arabs do not do. Hence, there were not be so many disenfranchised Arabs. The Arabs just want to continue the violence. Israel is defending herself.

Also, similar to all political entities, the UN is corrupt. Yes, I include Bush and company in this claim. Sorry imp. But if the Newsline report is validated Bush is in deep shit.

If we are hunting for the idiots who caused this mess.
I say we start with the British and french, who after
WW 1, divided up the middle east in a random and arbitrary
way. Everything in middle east history since 1919
has flowed from that idiotic decision.

Kropotkin