abcnews.go.com/International/Ira … 490&page=1
fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm
no connection? bush lied? no wmds? no proof?
oops! there it is!
-Imp
I’m confused. What exactly does this prove?
Am I missing something?
Brad,
It proves nothing. It’s pointless really… it undermines Bush either way…
You will like this Imp!
The Silent Muslim Majority IS the Problem
By Nonie Darwish
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 7, 2005
I am overwhelmed with sadness over the state of the Muslim world. I am looking at the photograph of an Iranian woman about to be stoned to death in Iran, buried to her waste in dirt to keep her from running away.
A few weeks ago, I read about a 14 year-old Iranian boy who died after receiving 85 lashes for the ‘sin’ of eating in public in the month of Ramadan. Salah Uddin Choudhury has been in prison for one year in Bangladesh for the ‘crime’ of urging his nation to recognize Israel and advocating interfaith dialogue among equals as well as warning against the growing power of Islamists in Bangladesh.
What are Muslim community activists in America doing about their homegrown brutal human rights violations? They are silent.
The picture of the stoned woman has been seen by some Muslims I know in the Middle East and also fellow Americans, Christians and Jews. The first reaction by the Muslims was “what did she do?†while the first reaction by Americans was “How could this happen?â€
The Muslim majority here in the US remains silent seeing the outrageous brutal medieval-style and inhumane punishments practiced in many parts of the Muslim world. Americans, who are puzzled by the silence of the so called “moderate†Arab-Americans after 9/11, do not understand that Arabs learned to be silent and indifferent to terror before even coming to America. Generations after generations of Muslims lived under dictatorships and were trained to look the other way when Muslims tortured and terrorized other Muslims. The result is a population de-sensitized to seeing brutality and horror. Too many of them see cruel punishment as normal. Their silence over the killing was not just an insult to America after 9/11, but is aiding and abetting the cruel culture of hate, terror, torture and beheadings.
Arab men, known for ‘machismo’, are doing nothing while watching such horrible injustice happen to their women and children. There is no uprising by Arab women over the inhumanity and cruelty their sisters in Islam are suffering. “She must have done something really bad!†one Muslim woman said to me after seeing the picture. By that, she of course meant having sex outside of marriage. 2000 years after Christianity abandoned stoning as a form of punishment, Islam still continues to practice it.
Even Muslim groups who live with Western freedoms are not making a strong stand to stop this cruel practice. There is a petition being circulated on the Internet by mostly non-Muslim or former Muslim groups to save the life of yet another Iranian woman from being stoned to death. On the other hand, many Muslim women in America, all the while enjoying Western freedoms, are busy covering their ankles, complaining about the French law against wearing religious symbols in French public schools or filing law suits to get their faces covered up on their drivers’ licenses in America.
These hijab-wearing Muslim women expressed no outrage over the brutal murder of Margaret Hassan in Iraq, a British woman who dedicated 30 years of her life to helping Iraqis. How many properly covered up Saudi, gulf state, Egyptian, Syrian or Jordanian women went to Iraq, Iran, Algeria or Sudan, to help their sisters and brothers in Islam as did Margaret Hassan? The answer is practically none. That job was usually left to Westerners who do it out of their Judeo-Christian inspired sense of humanity.
Most Islamic studies professors and Islamist groups in America exercise their freedom of speech given to them by America, but only when speaking against America, Judaism, Christianity, President Bush and Pat Robertson. However, they never dare to criticize their culture of origin and some even still have respect for the tyranny of the old country. They leave the job of ridding the Muslim world of terror to the victims of terror, namely America and Israel. Whenever they criticize the Muslim world it is in the context of blaming America for supporting dictatorships. However, when America attempts to bring democracy and get rid of Arab dictators they turn around and accuse America of occupation or empire building. No matter what America does, they voice criticism. That can only mean they do not seem to be serious about reformation in Muslim countries. They are, however, very serious about embarrassing, criticizing and hurting America.
Many Muslim groups and Middle East studies professors are aligning themselves with the liberal ‘hate America’ crowd in Western academia and media. Three days after the Tsunami in South Asia, I saw an Arab-American leader criticize America’s response as “slow and too little, too late†on CNN. They have the audacity to criticize America and give a free pass to the oil rich Arab countries that should be the first to respond financially to save their poor Muslim brothers and sisters in Indonesia.
Islamism and the old defeated and failed ideology of pan-Arabism is what many Islamic groups in America are advocating. They are silent in the face of Muslim poverty, corruption, neglect of human rights, oppression of women, honor killings and the brutal and unusual punishments such as cutting off limbs, flogging and stoning. They are not using American freedoms as an opportunity to change their countries of origin, but as an opportunity to influence and change America to be like the countries they came from. Their goal is also to keep Muslim-Americans under their control and the control of Muslim world mullahs, sheiks and dictators they should have left behind. How can any one take them seriously when they do not lift a finger to protect human rights in Muslim countries, but are militant in turning Arab-Americans into yet another voting block to influence American politics? They take no stand to protect the life of the Muslim woman being stoned and explain away such atrocities and beheadings while crying ‘profiling’ in America by the FBI.
Wahhabi Islamist groups in the West are dreaming of a day when Sharia Islamic laws that call for stoning women come to America and dominate the whole world. That is why Muslims in the West are not outraged over this picture.
Arab-Americans should reject Islamist groups and become part of the solution and not part of the problem in America. Let the history books say that Arab-Americans were the seed and cause of change in the Middle East. Let us stand behind President Bush in trying to bring about democracy in the Arab world. Let us form active genuine peace groups and reach out to other religions. Let us celebrate the freedoms America has given us by extending our compassion to the victims of terror left behind in our countries of origin. That should be the mission of Arab organizations in America and not the silly anti-American causes they are pursuing with the blessings from the enemies of America.
Arab-Americans should no longer stand silent before acts of terror and beheadings on our fellow brave American men and women in the US armed forces as well. America should never allow the poison of medieval-style justice and morality to penetrate its psyche under the guise of multiculturalism. It is time for America to hold Muslim countries and culture responsible for terrorism. Those countries are waging a two-faced war against the West while hiding behind their terrorists and their sacred veils.
Yes, the silent Muslim majority is the problem. Their silence is empowering not only the terrorists and brutal dictatorships, but all of the cultural, political and social pathologies behind them. Arab- Americans who speak out might be called ‘heroes’ by some. However, speaking out of love and gratitude for America is the duty of all American citizens.Nonie Darwish is an American of Arab/Moslem origin. A freelance writer and public speaker, she runs the website ArabsForIsrael.com.
Smiles,
aspacia 
This is bullshit. Nothing more than a precursor.
Buckle up. Here we go… where will we stop Imp?
Nobody knows.
we stop when the evidence is fully presented and the history is written that shows the left wing for the liars they are.
but if you are worried about iran have no fear…
if Israel doesn’t launch massive air strikes against them within 6 months, we will…
-Imp
if this should happen, it’s only because history is written the way that certain people want it to be written
it doesn’t mean if it’s true or not, at all
Impenitent: abcnews.go.com/International/Ira … 490&page=1
fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm
no connection? bush lied? no wmds? no proof?
oops! there it is!
K: Did you ummm actually read the links? they talk about one
unnamed anonymous source in Afghanistan who claims
Saddam was working with Osama. The second claim was
Saddam was "very interested in french politicians.
This weak, weak, weak stuff. One anonymous source?
You can’t even give us any physical evidence. Just unnamed
single sources for your supposed evidence.
It wouldn’t even be looked at in a court of law.
Kropotkin
If this is just an ongoing squabble among regulars then I apologize for interfering.
But the Left’s main argument against the war (other than that it isn’t working the way promised) is that the Administration reached a conclusion and then found, fit or manufactured evidence to back it up.
Isn’t that precisely what you’re doing here?
The other point that sticks out is simply that Iraq and/or Iran don’t seem to be the real issue, beating the Left does.
To the extent that that is true, it just doesn’t seem to matter whether you’re right or Right.
Aspacia,
I wonder if you might start another thread with that article. I’m not a Muslim, but I think the tension between standing up for what you believe and standing with people of common ancestry or belief is a good one.
Brad:If this is just an ongoing squabble among regulars then I apologize for interfering.
IMP: we stop when the evidence is fully presented and the history is written that shows the left wing for the liars they are.
but if you are worried about iran have no fear…
if Israel doesn’t launch massive air strikes against them within 6 months, we will…"
Brad: But the Left’s main argument against the war (other than that it isn’t working the way promised) is that the Administration reached a conclusion and then found, fit or manufactured evidence to back it up.
Isn’t that precisely what you’re doing here?
The other point that sticks out is simply that Iraq and/or Iran don’t seem to be the real issue, beating the Left does.
To the extent that that is true, it just doesn’t seem to matter whether you’re right or Right.
K: Bingo. We have a winner. The favorite game show on TV is
bashing the left. I am interested in the policies.
Lets talk about policies.
Kropotkin
What about the tapes of Saddam’s meetings before the fall of Bagdad? This evidence is rather hard to refute.
cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200602\NAT20060215c.html
With regards,
aspacia
i have been critisizing the govt. for a while now on ilp, but aspacia, your article there really made me think. if i’d been born in the bloody muslim tyrannys, i’d’ve been dead wrong to critisize.
what is mentioned in this article pisses me off worlds more than american intriuges!
so that just goes to show posting actual arguements does worlds more than just some lame, opinionated 1 liner.
aspacia:What about the tapes of Saddam’s meetings before the fall of Bagdad? This evidence is rather hard to refute.
cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200602\NAT20060215c.html
K:aspacia, I went over the entire link several times and could not
find anything referring to Saddam or any kind of meetings.
If you could be so nice and to point out what I am missing, I
would greatly appreciate it.
Correction, I went back and found the ariticle in question. I am not
that impressed because they are still no weapons to be found,
no proof of the 747 flight, where is the evidence? At least this time
it was a named source instead of the usual anonymous source.
The 9/11 commission never found any connection of this sort in
their investigations and they spent a year looking for it. If I could
have more then just ONE guy as a source, I would be happier.
I would love the wmd’s or some hard fact proving this, but so
far, it is not there. If the bushco group actually had these facts
in hand, they would broadcast it for the two years straight
as evidence of how right they were, but nothing from them.
Show me the money.
Kropotkin
Hi Peter,
Here is another link:
worldthreats.com/middle_east … ikriti.htm
The previous link discusses the recordings in Saddam’s regime regarding allusion to a terrorist attack on the USA.
An instructor at work taught in Saudi Arabia and said that the Saudis often claimed that the WMD’s were in Syria. More evidence is appearing that indeed the WMD’s were. Regardless, we took out a tyrant, and the world is better off. Al Quada’s funding is drying up. Libya is playing nice for the first time, Syria is on the ropes, and Iran soon will be. The funding for the Pals from the US and Israel are dried up, and the EU will also probably cut funding after the recent Pal behavior with burning of European Embassies, kidnapping French Medical workers, etc. Yes, there will continue to be problems, but we morally cannot leave Iraq because the state will most certainly boil over. Remember, much of the media does not cover the good that is occuring.
Remember, snipers were attacking our troops for several years after the end of WWII.
Peter,
Here is the article you find inconclusive:
(CNSNews.com) - Reportedly armed with 12 hours of Saddam Hussein’s audio recordings, the organizers of an upcoming “Intelligence Summit” are describing the tapes as the “smoking gun evidence” that the Iraqi dictator possessed weapons of mass destruction in the period leading up to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.
The U.S. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, which according to the New York Sun has already authenticated the Saddam tapes, has reopened its investigation into the possible existence and location of the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction (WMD). But some long-time liberal skeptics are showing no inclination to change their minds.
In the months leading up to the invasion of Iraq on March 19, 2003, the Bush administration argued that the war was necessary as a preemptive strike because the Iraqi president had WMD and there was a danger that he would use them against the United States.
On Oct. 6, 2004, Charles Duelfer, advisor to the director of Central Intelligence on Iraqi weapons, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that Saddam did not have WMD at the time of the invasion and that the weapons were likely destroyed following the first Persian Gulf War in 1991. On Jan. 12, 2005, the U.S. announced that is was stopping its search for the weapons in Iraq.
But a four-day Intelligence Summit, to be held Feb. 17-20 in Arlington, Va., is re-igniting the debate over the Iraqi WMD. The featured discussion, on Saturday, Feb. 18, is titled: “Saddam’s WMD Tapes: ‘The Smoking Gun’ Evidence.” The agenda for the event indicates that the person who will speak about the tapes is at this point “anonymous.”
The New York Sun on Feb. 7 reported that Rep. Peter Hoekstra’s (R-Mich.) committee had obtained the audio tapes from former federal prosecutor John Loftus. According to the report, Loftus received the tapes “from a former American military intelligence analyst.” Loftus is president of the Intelligence Summit, which is a yearly gathering of experts in the fields of counter-terrorism and intelligence gathering.
Jodie Evans of the anti-war group Code Pink, however, told Cybercast News Service that she does not think the Saddam recordings will lead to any new information. The government, according to Evans, has “said a lot of things for a long time.”
“There’s a difference between what they’ve been saying and what’s real, and when they find something real, I’ll comment.”
Danny Schechter, author and producer of the film version of “Embedded: Weapons of Mass Deception,” said he is “weary of these intercepts.”
[b]“Nobody denies that Saddam Hussein did have a WMD program. The United States knows that, we have the receipts, we supplied some of the initial technology,” Schechter said.
But the weapons were destroyed in 1991, after the first Gulf War, he asserted.[/b]
“The question is not, did he have a program, but did that program represent a threat to the United States, to England, or to anywhere else,” Schechter said. “I would be hesitant about raw intelligence that has not been analyzed, but that is being used in a partisan way by members of Congress,” he told Cybercast News Service.
“Saddam Hussein is probably one of the most demonized world leaders, with Dick Cheney a close second,” Schechter added.
Saddam is currently on trial in Iraq for ordering the killings of more than 140 Shiite Muslims in 1982. One of his former military advisors and top generals, Georges Sada, has written a book titled: “Saddam’s Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein.”
Sada, who is a national security adviser in Iraq’s new government, alleges that in June 2002 Saddam transported weapons of mass destruction out of Iraq and into Syria aboard several refitted commercial jets, under the pretense of conducting a humanitarian mission for flood victims.
A Feb. 2 Cybercast News Service article quoted Jamal Ware, the communications director for Rep. Hoekstra as saying that “the chairman has read General Sada’s book … He will meet with General Sada to hear first-hand him laying out the case that this transferal may have happened.” The New York Sun article from Feb. 7 indicated that Sada has since met with Hoekstra to talk about the issue.
Hi Peter,
Here is another link:
worldthreats.com/middle_east … ikriti.htm
The previous link discusses the recordings in Saddam’s regime regarding allusion to a terrorist attack on the USA.
An instructor at work taught in Saudi Arabia and said that the Saudis often claimed that the WMD’s were in Syria. More evidence is appearing that indeed the WMD’s were. Regardless, we took out a tyrant, and the world is better off. Al Quada’s funding is drying up. Libya is playing nice for the first time, Syria is on the ropes, and Iran soon will be. The funding for the Pals from the US and Israel are dried up, and the EU will also probably cut funding after the recent Pal behavior with burning of European Embassies, kidnapping French Medical workers, etc. Yes, there will continue to be problems, but we morally cannot leave Iraq because the state will most certainly boil over. Remember, much of the media does not cover the good that is occuring.
K: I do not share your confidence. The world is not better off.
World wide terrorism is up as well as the number of deaths from
terrorism. We( U.S.) is hated by more people then ever before.
The middle east is not better off but instead more problems exist
today then ever before. In Iraq, conditions are worse then
before saddam, (lead article in London times online march 18, 2006
talks about the conditions there and they are bad). The U.S. is
heading for a major economic collapse, from the idiotic bush policies
I truly live in fear of the next 20 years. I see dictatorship in
the future for the U.S… I see almost worldwide fighting starting
in a few years, for several reasons, to list them in no special order,
resources I.E. water/fuel/food/ clean air
the ideology wars will begin I.E. muslim world vs west,
and the most likely one, and the one people aren’t paying
attention to,
the haves vs the haves not. This war will be long and vicious,
most of south america vs north america,
the poor of Africa/ asia vs Europe/america.
I foresee years of battles. I do not see a happy future for
us. I hope to be long dead and buried, but fear I will live through it.
Kropotkin
It reads like an advertisement.
It’s pretty hard to refute something that doesn’t present anything to refute.
And as Old Gobbo said, it just opens up the same problems that have been discussed again and again for the last four years.
sometimes life sucks and then you die.
I kinda feel like a man in last few years before
world war 1. You knew a war was coming,
and yet, you are still trying to live life like one
is not coming. It is a strange feeling.
Kropotkin
i am very ready to move to iceland at the first sign of trouble. they have energy just spewing out of the volcanic hot springs. they have a small hydrogen gas station system that currently works for long distance trucking. nobody hates them. its a very relaxing thought, you should consider it. sucks to be poor, though.
Oh yes the left wing and the right wing.
Next time you fly on an airplane ask the left wing to separate!
Where is that proof?
How many of the shot and bombed Iraqees conspired against the USA?
How many republicans conspired against Iraq?
Do they deserve to be bombed sanctioned tortured and executed?
An airplane is stable with the left and the right wing attached.
If you don’t like this kind of balance, cut off your left lag!