Do people who believe in god or religion hate existence?
As a atheist that is the only way I have been able to understand religion.
To me the only reason why a man would need to construct a god is due to his hate of existence in that through his creation he creates a illusional symbol of security and salvation in a cosmos where there exists none in actuality.
What if man didn’t “construct” God? Does that small change in assumption change your conclusion?
What do you mean exactly?
If you start with assumption that no God can be real,
then you then look for a reason why so many people believe in this unreal God,
then you come to the conclusion that people have a need to believe,
then you ask yourself why,
then you conclude that people must hate their existence.
Yor conclusion follows from your original assumption that God cannot and is not real. But if this assumption is incorrect, as most people of faith would say, then your conclusion is meaningless.
So, it’s an argument that atheists might enjoy. But it’s completely irrelevant to a believer.
Joker, today religion consists of specialized terminology and ritual. Nothing more. The combination of these generates a “meme” which unwittingly becomes thought of as being immune to scientific inquiry, scientific method, scientific evidence, and is adopted as a tradition. So in this sense religion is the negative of science- it is everything that isn’t true or proved. Originally you are correct…religion evolved from a fear of reality by the weak (see Nietzsche). Today, however, the meme is so planted into every aspect of life, people are not opted to ever examine its history. When I say “terminology and ritual”, I mean that the only thing which distinguishes a “religious” reality from a nonreligious-reality is language and behavior…but the religious do not realize this. Nietzsche was correct- “we still believe in God because of language”.
When dealing with a religious person you must realize that you are dealing with a peculiar pathological condition, a combination of basic lack of rational, reasonable thinking and an emotional sickness, as a reaction to a meaningless, mortal existence. But most importantly you are dealing with a weak person, emotionally, who has become conditioned by the meme- the atmosphere created by the terminology and the ritual. The older a person gets, the harder it becomes for them to become un-religious, while a child conditioned to invest in and trust the rational scientific method is not lacking anything the religious person has. That is, there is nothing about being religious that is necessary to live an emotionally sound and “pathologically clear” life. In the shortest words possible…there is nothing there in religion- it is instead an absence of reality.
Why was the original post moved? Xunzian is drunk with power.
Anyone up for a powerless revolt with me? Joker?
Nice theory shellfish but that’s ultimately what it is a theory. Possibly that’s how you make sense of the religious experience but it is FAR from fact and shouldn’t be asserted as such. You may have faith that it is true and attempt to justify that faith but that’s just your weakness
nice rhetoric and quite catchy but it’s not really true is it? And yeah just cos Nietzsche said it doesn’t actually make it true.
Religion is perfectly compatible with rational thinking, one could even say that authentic religion is the apotheosis of reason. Aquinas remarked that “reason is the imprint of God within us”
While I will accept that a lot of people who claim to be religious may fall under some of the criticisms that you lay that doesn’t really have to undermine the belief that existence is meaningful but simply that their practice and understanding of ‘religion’ is lacking rather than a criticism of ‘religion’ itself. As you are aware Kierkegaard for example didn’t have much time for the culture of Christianity at his time but he didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I don’t think science is some great battle with religion or religion has to be the anti-science as you seem to. I think science i.e. the scientific method is useful but perhaps needs to be extended to comprehend Reality fully. For me religion can be the effortful extension of reason.
My thoughts anyway
I do not see it as hating existence. How about just safety? We wear clothes to protect our bodies, we live in homes for the same reason. If we build a mental home of safety for our mind in this very large dark world and universe it is no different. Perhaps religion and atheism are around in order to protect sanity in an insane existence, I do not see either as hating existence just a haven when one is tired.
Because Xunzian is a religious spiritualist of the East who is equally fundamental as his Western cousins.
You assumed that a god is real therefore the burden of proof lies within you to prove your fable’s existence.
It is irrelevant to the believer because they can’t handle anything outside of their religious delusions on existence therefore they delude themselves that everything outside of their faith is irrelevant.
I can agree with that.
People construct religion as a safety net because they hate actuality that is existence since it is absent of all security.
How?
Joker, i sort of touched upon in my earlier post but if I was to go in more detail i’d say the goal of reason is the TRUTH, an understanding or awareness of reality. If you were to ask me a few years ago what my religion was I’d just say Truth-Seeker and that is how i understood religion but my conclusion is that through being open-minded and searching for answers rather than attempting to justify your own prejudices or fears (which often I think is the desire to refute the absurdity or contradictions in organised manifestations of religion) you can find some kind of understanding. Reason is larger than simply the scientific method. We learn through an inductive process but I just reckon if you try to process what you learn honestly and with effort there is ‘meaning’ at the end of the path. That’s how I see it but yeah an interesting book that influenced me a bit was Kant Religion Within The Boundaries Of Mere Reason which discusses similar issues.
Here’s an article called “dispensing with existence” by DC Williams. Check it out yo…
jstor.org/pss/2023156
Joker if you can’t see it all there and you want to let me know and I’ll email you the .pdf.
It would be if I was trying to prove something to you, but I’m not. If you’re trying to prove that God is a fable then the burden of proof is on you. But I suspect that you’re just ranting at no-one in particular.
Is this comment supposed to be an intelligent analysis of religious thought? All I can say, is that you’re welcome to your opinion.
How is it hate? I don’t hate an alligator and it is dangerous. Most humans do not hate danger or insecurity, they just acknowledge it, defend against it and live their lives. Granted some hate and fear it but, not most. Like anything repeated often enough it becomes mundane and not worth thinking about as long as you have made your preperations. Hate has really nothing to do with it. Self defense and protection do. Just mere survival instincts kicking in. Attaching petty emotions to something that is as mundane as religion is a fear that maybe it will attack you ,maybe… Could be a confused Islaamic Mormon coming to get you. 
Existence is not a thing which can be loved or hated. Things in existence can be loved or hated.
You’re understanding has nothing to do with atheism, as you’re claiming. Many atheists disagree with you.
I didn’t construct God, God is a concept that was already ingrained in the culture I was born into. I just adopted it. As a child, I developed (realized?) a sense that the infinite was the grandest ideal that the human mind was capable of, and later in life I realized that the idea of God was a useful anthropomorphization of infinity, which gives the mind a tool to relate that abstract concept to one’s life, or the other finite things we experience.
I also learned about the value of understanding that relationship. And while that value is rooted in the fact that I am capable of hate, fear and other negative emotions, the fact that everybody is likewise capable means that everybody should find the idea of God useful as well.