hear ye, people of small faith

hear ye, people of small faith, i speak of remarkable possibilities open to you; and new unchartered territory open to exploration.
for the past while i’ve been reading a lot about lucid dreaming. for those that don’t know, a lucid dream is a dream where you are aware you are dreaming, and as such, can exercise a degree of control in the dream… a conscious dream, sortof.
for me at least, it didn’t just happen. there are different techniques for first off, remembering your dreams, then acheiving lucidity, and maintaining the dream once you realize it is a dream.
i’d say its about split evenly between people who don’t think such things are possible/exist, and people who obviously do. whatever the split, lucid dreaming is quickly associated with all things occult.
i’m telling you they exist, i had one. after doing a lot of reading, and ‘working’ at it for awhile.
what helped me particularly (i have to assume) is waking up acouple hours early, and going back to bed immediately… which, i read, would have interrupted the sleep cycle such that makes it easier to remember the dream… hence confirm that i had a lucid dream. it was an absurdity that triggered lucidity (on a side, it was my dad and brother sitting beside me, but they were MUCH younger versions… and so as in the dream i was walking away, i was like ‘wait a second…’). and then at the exact point it clicked that i was dreaming, i felt woozy, like drunk almost, just before passing out, but the technique i used was to focus intensely on an object and somehow regained ‘composure’ or whatever, control i suppose. i chose a direction to walk (it was up a staircase, as it were, i was on a boat, and i went up the staircase, and outside, only a bow that was just water level… i then tried to fly (swear to god) but couldn’t, then chose to walk back downstairs and the dream ended.
at the point when i first gained lucidity, i could almost feel myself (my body) wake up, sit up even, it was almost like i snatched myself, and dragged myself back down.
and one of the books i read, was all into dream symbolism and crap… very occult, which i ignore. but the dream did have some symbolism, which i didn’t dig for, it was just so obvious… not that that means anything.

so anyways, people of small faith, read up on this phenomenon, i tell you as someone entirely not inclined to flights of fancy that such dreaming is possible, even if previously you hardly ever have a dream you remember (ie me)
just thought i’d share all that.

you ever catch yourself doing something in a dream that is clearly reatrded and doesnt make any sense? boy dreams are funny:

me and my roomate are in the kitchen, we have a george foreman grill, its like a closed clamshell, and there are a few small shot glass sized plastic cups. i see a bus pull up out the window and anxiously hurry to get in it. the way i get in the bus, which is out the window a good 50 ft away, is by getting into the plastic cup, which on the kitchen counter, and then squeezing myself into the closed george foreman.

i struggled for a small while trying to get into the cup, and just as i jump down from the counter to tell my roomate that this is not going to work, he opens the grill, jumps in the cup and easily gets into the grill. i say to myself oh right open the grill and put the cup on it! and i easily do this and jump into the cup, without ever seeing a bus, but knowing that the bus was about to leave if i didnt hurry up. i went on to do many great things, including being attacked by a dog, and dodging him slomo matrix style and instead of punching him around, i scratched him… in matrix slomo. same dream.

if you stop smoking pot for half a month or so, youll have very vivid and completely zany dreams.

I’ve read something like this—that you can control your dreams, wake up and get back to it—but perhaps, I wouldn’t want to try it because most of my dreams are scary, and often I try hard to wake up to get out of it. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve had tons of dreams I’ve remembered, many lucid that I could control and keep dreaming while going in and out of semi-consciousness (maintaining a certain level of consciousness so that I could control the dream but not lose it by waking totally up or falling back into deep sleep)… only once have I sleep-walked and saw myself sleeping in bed, only to wake up exiting my room (when I was five or so)… I see no link to the ‘occult’, this is the first I’ve heard of that, although I’ve heard of it sparking discussions on how it relates to the ‘self’.

The weirdest thing I’ve learned from lucid dreaming is that you can make yourself feel things without direct pressure… an ability which is maintained at a certain level of consciousness… once you go too deep back into sleep or start to wake up too much, that ability is gone, which is highly, highly frustrating in some more stimulating dreams. I have been wondering if, through meditation, one could learn how to get to that level of consciousness to make oneself feel things without direct pressure (without having to be semi-asleep)… /that/ would be awesome (if you know what I’m trying not to be too direct about… sorry if that makes anyone feel awkward… if so just ignore it and move along in the discussion…). But, it’s not that important to me, so I haven’t researched it past just wondering about it.

share your secret.
and about occult, thats where i see different books drift in talking about lucid dreaming. and really, once you start talking about what it is and not just how some people think you can do it then i don’t see how it can be avoided…
in fact, if lucid dreaming is just ‘being conscious in your unconscious’ …once you try and say anything beyond that, i’m pretty sure you could call that occult… and thats probably appropriate considering - well, as far as i know - theres no rulers and stethoscopes for talking about such experiences. and not that that alone would make it occult, but that, and the fact that you’re talking about something the vast majority of people don’t experience, let alone on a regular basis (i don’t think i’m stretching by making that claim… most people i talk to hardly ever even remember their dreams)

if i get really good at it… and so far i haven’t had another one. i’m going to try and put myself in situations where i couldn’t possibly know what to do… and then act it out, and see if i’ve demonstrated knowledge i couldn’t have possibly learned. look at the dream action and compare with what is properly done. (for example, if i could put myself at the operating table in a dream) …but then again, you’d have to be a master to pull something like that off. and a massive list of sexual scenarios would come before that, ofcourse.

well in theory (“theory” …i’ve been reading books that don’t deserve their content and that word in the same post, but anyways) you should be able to change the dream, make it not scary. but who knows, all i did was pick a direction to walk, and tried/failed to fly.

Well, twice I dreamt that a murderer was after me. Another night, I dreamt that some guy came to my place and pulled a coffin from the back of his pick-up truck. How in the world could you change that? It was so scary. Oh, I almost forgot, falling off a cliff into a bottomless, dark space. Now, how do you stop that fall when there’s nothing to cling to.

well everyone has bad dreams. it sounds like you need a teddy bear. i’m being serious.
and if for you they’re too often maybe you could explore them / change them. no laws apply, so you can fly out of pits if you can fly out of pits.
but even before that, (i’m just speculating) if you were in a bad dream… and you made it lucid… you know you’re dreaming… that should make you invinsible against any bad dream characters… the scariest murderer should be a play thing.
but i guess the trick is getting lucid.

But I’d need a lot of practice. I have to say, though, I kinda enjoy being scared once I get out of it, once I find out it’s just a dream. :confused: Teddy bear?

i never practiced, but i do have those often, what usually happens is, when i don’t like the ending of the dream, i sort of, ‘rewind’ and try to change it…

I think that just like you can visualize willfully and be self-conscious of bodily sensations – such visualizing and sensing can happen underneathe awareness (otherwise, information overload – equivalent of a computer crashing). When you are conscious of your dreams, you are awake and asleep – you are aware of the visualizing and sensing that goes on underneathe awareness (the program running in the background, which you are not conscious of when fully awake, because ‘awake’ is a result of that program and … something else that makes one self-conscious and aware, which requires too much attention and so the program runs in the background while awake – it’s all the stuff we’ve already formed attitudes about, all the stuff we’ve already processed and condensed for speedier recovery – and dreaming is just like… um… like defrag, if you know what that is… it processes/organizes what we had no attention for during the waking hours… the details… the stresses we suppressed, ignored, refused to fret over).

I have never demonstrated knowledge during a dream that I hadn’t already learned while conscious (I have however flown many, many times, but that is based on experiences pieced together from real life, of course) – I have heard of a person, close to death (due to an accident) who has remembered things (like Bible verses) they never could remember while totally conscious (anecdotal here)… but that would require they had atleast been /exposed/ to the verse while awake, and the memory was stored in an irretrievable (or atleast difficult to retrieve, maybe because of weak associations, which suddenly became strong/relevant near-to-death, when they were useful)-while-fully-conscious way… I’m not sure if you are referring to that sort of thing or not, but good luck, either way.

I don’t know my secret. I like having crazy dreams, I like remembering them and retelling them, – those things reenforce actually having them. I noticed I could control aspects of my dreams, and so just did that more often until I became really good at it – I guess my secret it ‘practice’.

I ‘learned’ how to fly in my dreams. I ‘learned’ how to switch from one horribly tormenting scene into a more neutral/positive dream. I couldn’t always do it. Sometimes I am conscious of the dream and think… this is nuts… let’s see where it goes… I just let the program run (it’s definitely not from ‘me’… not something my ‘will’ is responsible for – but is instead from my non-conscious bodily processes)… I just watch, without interfering (as long as it stays ‘okay’)… Sometimes it is very difficult to change it – I’ll will something else, but the program keeps changing it back to what it was… that’s when I wake myself the f’ up, or try to lose the consciousness and escape back into deep sleep.

Well, that’s enough babbling – soup’s on.

… how I do /that/ (I don’t think it could be called a ‘secret’) is that once I am aware I am lucid, I focus on the dream, and do not acknowledge anything else but the sensations of the dream and sleeping. I don’t acknowledge any thought that would make me curious or anxious to wake up – like “what is that noise?” or “oh man I forgot to dry the laundry”… ignore it if you can – make yourself realize you can post-pone acknowledging the thought, that it can wait until you are done exploring your dream, or else there will be no lucid dreaming.

I will acknowledge only those things in the ‘real world’ which are conducive to sleep – stuff that keeps me sleepfully aware and loving to sleep – like the wonderful scent of my blankets, like the softness of my pillow, the darkness of the room, the sleepy breathing… but those things will be ‘in the background’… not at the front of my mind – it’s like someone is talking to you when you are focused deeply into something else, and all you hear is ‘wa wa wa wa wa’ because you can practice selective listening. Whereas the dream world is running in the background while you are fully conscious in the real world, the waking world is now in that place (although it isn’t “running”, because it isn’t your program) and you are allowing your self just enough consciousness to observe and manipulate your dream, but not so much that your body follows suit and wakes all the way up… focus on the dream, on sleeping, but on being aware of the sleeping and dreaming… and shutting out the ‘call’ of the real world.

I mentioned observing a crazy dream that wasn’t ‘me’ or my ‘will’… well… ofcourse it is ‘me’ as far as part of what makes my body, the sensory impressions recorded in my brain, and my emergent-from-brain ‘mind’. It is inseparably connected to my mind, although I don’t will it… like one does not will puberty or senility, etc. It is also part of my body, – it is why you failed your first attempt to fly… why I had to ‘learn’ to fly. Your brain has to make sense of what it would feel like if you were actually starting to fly on your own… what it would feel like to get yourself up off the ground… what it would feel like to change directions, mid-flight… to avoid obstacles… to slow yourself down and speed back up… etcetera… your dreaming mind does not disconnect itself from your body, it imagines (fills in the blanks) it is receiving feedback from your body that it is not actually receiving… and then makes your body actually feel that feedback, … which is weird… 'cause then it really /is/ receiving feedback, which it created. That, I don’t understand.

I don’t know exactly how it is possible, how it works… but lucid dreaming is when the will takes over the controls and fills in those blanks, or maintains the filling in of those blanks as long as it can keep from waking up or falling back into deep sleep…

Have fun learning to fly. :slight_smile:

Sheâ„¢

Thank you for the insight into your process for lucid dreaming.

I am very envious of lucid dreamers. I have known a number of them through the years. None of them have been as self aware of their process as you.

I have yet to achieve a sucessful lucid dream, although I have flown in many of them.
(I think I has some kind of dream abnormality because I am blind in my dreams. I do have normal sight in the waking world. In dreams my sight is like a watered down version of Daredevil.)

:frowning: envy :frowning:

:slight_smile:

That’s interesting that your vision is different while you dream… I have the movie Daredevil (little tangent here: I love movies with females who can kick ass, and are overall presented as being more attractive because they are on more equal footing w/ males… rather than being put down by the main characters for that more equal footing… and ‘super hero saves the day’ flicks that include the hero’s ‘softer side’ and how he must balance the strength/weakness… the last Spiderman movie was just awesome on that note, I can’t wait to see the third one – “go get 'em, tiger” hehehe… I bet she’ll be kick-ass in the next one :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:), so I know what you’re talking about (vision-wise). What I see when I dream is not ‘clear as day’, although I have seen/imagined many ‘details’ that any artist would envy… those details then take focus, while the rest of the dream-picture fuzzes out. And images just come to you out of nowhere in dreams, scenes change back and forth, several different dream plots happen together – not like in normal life. You never get the full picture of your dream environment, because you have to remember what went where, which means you are constantly reinventing your environment. Probably only geniuses with really good memory can maintain a stable picture, whereas for the rest of us, only the most prominent objects of the dream will not be forgotten, although they may change ‘location’.

The feedback thing… I wonder if ‘spontaneous combustion’ could be explained by the mind psyching out the body to think it is on fire (while dreaming), then the body giving that feedback to the mind so that it is experienced as ‘real’ instead of ‘dream’ and the burning becomes self-induced and ‘actual’? It’s not exactly testable by science, for obvious ethical reasons. But, if it were true – what else can you do to the body with your mind (besides psyching yourself out, calming yourself down by controlling your resperations and thinking happy thoughts, etc.)?

I do not think the mind is separate from the body – I am not a dualist, just in case anyone wondered.

Could we induce ourselves to be cured of certain illnesses/injuries?.. maybe – I dunno. It’s a weird thought, though. I haven’t been sick for a long time, atleast not physically… (mua haha haaaa)… :laughing:

this is hard to read. i wish i was better at dreaming. i wish i had more time to read up on it.

I have lucid dreams once in awhile… or at least they are dreams where I am relatively conscious in them.

There are some where I have the ability to fly like superman, and some where I can barely move my limbs. Its weird. Usually I find out that its lucid either by my inability to move my limbs, or my ability to fly like superman.

Sorry Monooq… I wonder if people in a coma (assuming they can get close to lucid) wish they could experience wakefulness…

Curious, xanderman… did you have those dreams before or after seeing “Daredevil”?

Last night I watched “Bourne Supremacy” before bed, and had a dream about “zoning in” on a scene (but without the use of surveillance equipment) (there was more to the dream, but that’s all I remember).

thats nuts, i watched bourne supremacy the night before last. i know i’m dreaming, and i vaguely remember parts when i wake up, but forget them as soon as i roll out of bed. its becaues of my extreme laziness and lack of dedication to the project here…

Question:
So… could you dream up anything you wished? Like creating a giant pita, or making Shakira appear naked in front of you, or would you only be able to interact with your “dream enviroment” at will?

in lucid dreams I either try to have sex, or fly around like superman, or I gut some enemies (sometimes combinations of those). It seems to be a combo of me wanting to do those activities and it just happening (often the enemies appear out of nowhere when I am flying like superman).

if i could do it, i wouldn’t be here, typing a non existent post. i would be practicing scenarios for getting my ethics professor in bed. it’d be better than the mirror.