Hedonistic Imperative

“Thus whereas today many people are driven by gradients of discontent, in the future I think we’ll be animated by gradients of bliss. Some days will be sublime. Others will be merely wonderful. But critically, there will be one particular texture (“what it feels like”) of consciousness that will be missing from our lives; and that will be the texture of nastiness. I think the absence of Darwinian suffering will be the foundation of any future civilization.” – David Pearce

I think this guy is interesting. It really gets right to the point: how can we feel good? He puts nanotechnology, genetic engineering, chemical mental states to work to make his point. If you’re religious, you won’t like him. But any secular humanist needs to be aware of David Pearce’s musings.

“chemical mental states”

This sounds like the sort of tantalising yet horrific provokations of virtual reality schemes in which our whole existence is put to the test. For eight straight hours of every day, I will immerse myself in a falsely utopian fantasy world in which I chose to become the lesbian heroine or the prowling alley-cat. To the mere cost of normal social interaction I fast gain an ego twice the size of Britain and a cleaning habit that even a carpet louse would sniff at. My hesitation towards custodial duties can be excused, for I am now the creator of my own destiny - a kind of cerebral prophet deemed conversely able of shredding ‘that certain form of doubt’ into a haphazard freeway of delight.

I’ve read some about this idea as well. I find it fascinating, and a very important frontier for science.

I have some video footage of an experiment done with a female patient. The doctors had attached stimulators to different parts of her brain. When the part of the brain that controlled a behavior, like laughing, was given a charge, she would laugh. The footage shows her sitting there hooked up to this machine, laughing whenever the doctor pushes the button.

The cool part was her reaction to it all. She would state that she didn’t find anything funny, but couldn’t help but laugh. That a general feeling of happiness came over her despite what she was thinking.

How very interesting.

…that line and the ones preceeding it…I mean, I’m impressed and it DON’T mean maybe! :unamused:

…as for Mr. Pearce’s statement…why would “the texture of nastiness” preclude “Darwinian suffering”… and why “Darwinian”? According to this, there could be NO civilization beyond “that” somewhat truncated future. After all, would we not by this scenario have programmed ourselves into ACCEPTING ANY existing undesirable diminishment or surplus simply because we’d be incapable of telling the difference between the two or perhaps we would not even be CONSCIOUS enough to give a sh…! I certainly don’t right now because I’ll be dead by then. I’m happy to know that I’m already “preprogrammed” to accept whatever comes in the future with absolute equanimity. The only difference between myself and the future would be that I won’t feel a thing when I’m dead and “they” won’t feel anything when they’re alive except perhaps the “gradient” boredom of incessant bliss. Night never comes and mystery is buried in light! Now, if Darwin whose dead doesn’t give a shit, why should I? I’ll be just as good as he IS. Notice that the transition of death to non-existence ALWAYS exists in the present! DEAD means without tense and ITS MOMENT never ceases! Subsequent dimensions of time and being need not apply for strange as it may seem, stupidity is alot like death!

:astonished::smiley:

Is suffering inherently neccessary?

wireheading.com/hypermotivation.html

"Happiness, Hypermotivation
and the Meaning Of Life

HYPERMOTIVATION
Stepping on a strongly electrified grid is highly aversive. A desperately hungry rat - even a rat who hasn’t eaten for 10 days - won’t run across an electrified cage-floor to reach a food-source: the shocks are too painful. But a rat with electrodes implanted in its neural reward circuitry will cross the grid, repeatedly, to gain the chance to self-stimulate its pleasure centres. Direct electrical stimulation of the mesolimbic dopamine system is so overpoweringly delightful that the anticipated reward eclipses the immediate pain.

    The brain's dopamine system has a dual psychological role: it regulates not just pleasure, but cue-induced craving. Cues such as seeing, smelling or tasting something potentially enjoyable - and the prospect of pressing a magic lever - heighten the desire for an anticipated reward without necessarily increasing the pleasure of the reward itself. An experienced rat with electrodes in its pleasure centers is very highly motivated. A mother will abandon her unweaned pups in order to self-stimulate indefinitely. 

    Euphoriant drugs such as cocaine and amphetamines activate the mesolimbic reward circuitry too. But they also activate the homeostatic mechanisms of the brain. These are control mechanisms that regulate our level of well-being (or commonly ill-being) analogous to the inhibitory feedback loops of, say, the thermoregulatory system. Psychostimulants activate not just the reward pathways, but neural "stress chemicals" such as corticotrophin-releasing factor(CRF); CRF-1 antagonists now in the pharmaceutical product-pipeline are promising anti-anxiety agents and antidepressants. 

     Our endogenous stress system serves to minimise, or act as a brake on, the amount of pleasure we can "naturally" obtain in a lifetime. This design-limitation is quietly satisfying to pharmacological Calvinists and religious fundamentalists. It is also the cause of immense suffering and malaise. Stress-induced overactivity of hypothalamic CRF/CRH neurons contributes to hyperactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) system. Chronic HPA overactivity eventually demotivates and depresses its victims. HPA hyperdrive can lead to a spectrum of learned helplessness and behavioural despair characteristic of some forms of clinical depression. 

    By contrast, direct intracranial self-stimulation subverts these homeostatic mechanisms. Wireheading never ceases to feel sublime, regardless of how many times the subject self-stimulates the neural reward centres. Possibly - though this is controversial - tolerance to its hedonic effects is absent because electrical stimulation of the mesolimbic dopamine system activates the final common pathway of pleasure. 

    Experiments with electrified grids for self-stimulating humans to navigate are neither imminent nor ethical. So we can't prove just how powerfully motivating would be the implantation of optimally-located microelectrodes in normal human subjects. Even uncomplicated wireheading is currently considered unethical by medical orthodoxy. Thus the pioneering human experiments of controversial Tulane psychiatrist Robert Heath have not been repeated or refined - even to treat victims of refractory depression unresponsive to conventional antidepressants. Instead, repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS), ECT, and even (rarely) psychosurgery are medically sanctioned in extremis for "treatment-resistant" depressives. Their long-term clinical efficacy is uncertain. 

    Better drug-design is one option. Another is rewriting our own genetic code. Our genetically-enriched descendants may enjoy levels of incentive-motivation that are analogous to - and possibly far greater than - whatever drives a rat to cross an electrified grid as an ingredient of lifelong mental health. Decoding the human genome - and soon the proteome - opens up technical possibilities it would be unethical to ignore in an viciously pain-ridden world. For we can potentially amplify, modulate and redesign the architecture of our own neural reward mechanisms. Unlike our bodily thermostat, which can operate only within a narrow temperature range, the homeostatic mechanisms that govern human emotion and motivation can be radically recalibrated. Recalibrating the pleasure-pain axis may endow us with a far higher emotional "set-point" around which to oscillate than the dismal Darwinian norm. 

    Uniform happiness is no more educative or illuminating than uniform despair. A wholly emotionally stable subject - and in theory an entire civilisation - could get "stuck in a rut", whether that "rut" is a slough of despond or a sub-optimal plateau of bliss. But learning and personal development based on gradients of well-being can be both educative and powerfully motivating. A life animated by gradients of well-being is also personally more soul-enriching than learning based on gradients of pain. 

    On this scenario, bad hair days in any future post-Darwinian era of paradise-engineering may be merely wonderful rather than sublime. Centuries hence, the computational-functional analogs of traditional "painful lessons" will survive, but not their cruel Darwinian textures. Indeed the homeostatic baseline of even our own (un)happiness could potentially be reset at a level of sustainable well-being orders of magnitude higher than the norm adaptive for small social groups of naked apes on the African savannah. 

    What's the theoretical maximum? We don't know. Should the empirical methodology of science be used to find out? No research proposal with that aim has yet gained funding. How accurately can pleasure and pain be quantified on a single unidimensional scale? This is disputable, albeit more as a complication than a fundamental obstacle to the abolitionist project. What fail-safe genetic mechanisms can prevent - or today sometimes fail to prevent - extreme happiness spiralling off instead into psychotic mania? We're still not sure. This challenge must be met before we can safely explore germline therapy for hereditary mental superhealth.

THE MEANING OF LIFE?

    In future, safer and more sophisticated analogs of wireheading may conceivably be on offer as an individual lifestyle choice. Implausibly, for sure, the freedom to wirehead might one day count as a basic human right. After all, an inalienable right to the "pursuit of happiness" was recognised by the Founding Fathers and enshrined in the American constitution. Yet the pursuit of wireheading or its analogs is not an evolutionarily stable strategy - whether for rodents, monkeys, or a future (post-)human civilization. In the era of mature genomic medicine, when the corrupt legacy code of our ancestors has been rewritten, our descendants may be animated by gradients of lifelong happiness far richer, multi-dimensional, and more profound than anything physiologically accessible at present. Globally, however, it's hard to envisage how individual well-being could be purely orgasmic, undirected at intentional objects. ["Intentionality" is the philosophers' term of art for the "object-directedness" or "aboutness" of thought.] Selection pressure doesn't favour higher vertebrates who neglect their pups.

    Over millions of years, natural selection has favoured the "encephalisation of emotion". We've become brainier and (comparatively) more emotionally sophisticated. Raw feeling and emotion typically infuse neocortical representations of ourselves and our environment in ways tending to maximise the inclusive fitness of self-replicating DNA. Most recently, the rich generative syntax of human language enables us to be (un)happy "about" innumerably more notions than our hominid ancestors. Admittedly, the discontinuity represented by the imminent revolution in reproductive medicine - a major evolutionary transition in the development of life on earth - could in principle reverse this long-term trend to complexification. In the post-Darwinian era of "unnatural" selection based on premeditated design, we could, in theory, choose genes that make our children blissed out rather than blissful. But it's more likely our descendants will opt instead to enjoy a well-being for their children (and themselves) that is far more encephalised than our own. Posterity will be smarter. They may even be nicer. The tendency to encephalise feeling may accelerate, even as those feelings tend to become deeper, more intense and more beautiful. Our emotional palette may be expanded far beyond today's primitive Darwinian appetites and their crude sublimations. Thus our enriched well-being may be predominantly empathetic, sensual, psychedelic, cerebral, aesthetic, introspective, maternal, or forms of consciousness unimaginable to twenty-first century emotional primitives. 

    Our post-human successors presumably won't undergo the agonies of our laboratory rodents in pursuit of such exhilarating lives. In the new reproductive era, emotional well-being and prodigious will-power alike can potentially be genetically hardwired as a precondition of mental health. "Authentic happiness" doesn't need to be strived for. Like a sense of meaning and purpose, it can be innate. 

    Today, meanwhile, many people find it hard to get out of bed in the morning. Given the prevalence of chronic dysthymia, anhedonia and low-grade depression in even the "well" population at large, such inertia is scarcely surprising. Why bother to exert oneself if the payoff is so meagre? Depressive and unmotivated people are likely to find life "meaningless", "absurd", "futile". Nihilistic thoughts and angst-ridden mindsets are common. Feelings of inadequacy and failure can haunt the ostensibly successful. And the world is full of walking wounded whose spirit has been crushed. 

    Conversely (and for evolutionary reasons, less commonly), hyperthymic or euphorically hypomanic people tend to find life intensely meaningful. A heightened sense of significance is part of the texture of their lives. If our happiness is taken care of - whether genetically, pharmacologically, or electrosurgically - then the meaning of life seems to take care of itself. 

    Depressives, philosophers and hard-nosed scientists may respond that "the meaning of life" is cognitively meaningless, a verbal placebo empty of propositional content. Happy and hypermotivated people, on the other hand, find the meaning of life self-intimating, written into the texture of the(ir) world. 

    Chronic apathy, weak will-power, depressive disorders, and the nastier poisonous modes of Darwinian consciousness can in principle be remedied by 1] drugs, 2] genes or 3] electrodes. These choices are not mutually exclusive. The abolitionist project and any post-Darwinian civilisation based on paradise-engineering could in theory take advantage of all three. But each option is highly controversial."

Towards the Abolition of Suffering through Science
abolitionist-society.com

I wouldn’t want this to sound nasty, but I thought we had answered this issue many years ago. It’s called a ‘frontal lobotomy’ :unamused:

Whether surgical, chemical, or the application of some form of Pavlovian training, manipulated stimulus response is just a crude form of the Matrix, is it not?

The wish to circumvent a comparison/contrast mind isn’t really new. “ignorance is bliss” has been around for a loooooong time. I find such thinking to be incredulous. Heaven only exists because hell is possible. To be ‘always in bliss’ reduces our humaness to to that of instinctual animal behaviors.

I suppose that the real answer would be to be the person with a patent on the process that gives us perpetual heaven… :sunglasses:

JT

Without suffering, there wouldn’t be any need to progress. How can one experience happiness without the experience of suffering?

The elimination of suffering is unimaginable because we have all suffered. I can’t imagine a life without suffering. where I won’t be hungry so I don’t have to cook. I won’t be tired, so I don’t have to sleep. I can’t suffer so I can’t be happy.

What fairy tales!!! Get a life and learn to suffer.

Does a frontal lobotomy abolish suffering? - I don’t think so…

No, it is not. The Matrix is a sci-fi thriller/action entertainment movie…

Humans suffered in the Matrix.

Eliminating comparison/contrast from the minds abilities needn’t be a prerequisite for the abolition of suffering - it is a stereotype.

What is progress, but the elimination of suffering? There is an assumption that not suffering entails the removal of motivation or intelligence.

Taken from the Hedonistic Imperative

(hedweb.com/hedethic/hedon4.htm#incoherent);

"4.0 “Happy experiences, and the very concept of happiness itself, are possible only because they can be contrasted with melancholy. The very notion of everlasting happiness is incoherent.”

Some people endure lifelong emotional depression or physical pain. Quite literally, they are never happy. Understandably, they may blame their misery on the very nature of the world, not just their personal clinical condition. Yet it would be a cruel doctrine which pretended that such people don’t really suffer because they can’t contrast their sense of desolation with joyful memories. In the grips of despair, they may find the very notion of happiness cognitively meaningless. Conversely, the euphoria of unmixed (hypo)mania is not dependent for its sparkle on recollections of misery. Given the state-dependence of memory, negative emotions may simply be inaccessible to consciousness in such an exalted state. Likewise, it is possible that our perpetually euphoric descendants will find our contrastive notion of unhappiness quite literally inconceivable. For when one is extraordinarily super-well, then it’s hard to imagine what it might be like to be chronically mentally ill.

    Here's a contemporary parallel. It's possible to undergo, from a variety of causes, a complete bilateral loss of primary, secondary and "associative" visual cortex. People with Anton's Syndrome not only become blind; they are unaware of their sensory deficit. Furthermore, they lose all notion of the meaning of sight. They no longer possess the neurological substrates of the visual concepts by which their past and present condition could be compared and contrasted. Our genetically joyful descendants may, or may not, undergo an analogous loss of cognitive access to the nature and variant textures of suffering. Quite plausibly, they will have gradients of sublimity to animate their lives and infuse their thoughts. So at least they'll be able to make analogies and draw parallels. But fortunately for their sanity and well-being, they won't be able to grasp the true frightfulness lying behind any linguistic remnants of the past that survive into the post-Darwinian era. Such lack of contrast, or even the inconceivability of unpleasant experiences, won't leave tomorrow's native-born ecstatics any less happy; if anything quite the reverse.

    It's true that a world whose agents are animated by pleasure gradients will still have the functional equivalent of aversive experience. Yet the "raw feel" of such states may still be more wonderful than anything physiologically possible today."

Thoughts are indeed mood congruent… sadly…;

hedweb.com/ecstasy/index.html

Learning to suffer. This entails learning how to suffer ‘least.’ Applying this knowledge we aim to suffer least as quickly as possible and focus on the very root of suffering itself - genetic design.

When the substrates of experience are designed without suffering - then the idea of suffering will seem equally improbable.

abolitionist

What you are really advocating is the Buddist end through scientific means. Buddist says suffering is caused by desire, to eliminate desire would eliminate suffering. so they try to escape desire. you seem to say, brain chemicals cause suffering so if we take drugs we take away suffering. which is correct in the logical sense, but incorrect in the common world sense.

If you are not cold, you do not need cloth, there goes fashion.
If you are not bored, you do not need computer games, there goes games.
If you are fullfilled, you do not need improvement, there goes progress.

Art, music, literature, philosophy involves suffering. Suffering, like cold, boredom motivates people to change for the better.

To avoid a language game. Could you define what you mean by suffering and happiness? Could you give an instance of suffering. Because suffering has many meaning, it could mean pain, hunger, or it could mean desire unfullfilled.

The Buddhist end is not the same as the Abolitionist end - rather than the elimination of suffering - the goal/end of Buddhism is the propagation of culture. I’ve never met a Buddhist that didn’t suffer.

We attribute the cause of suffering to genetic design.

Would we suffer for not having things that we no longer needed? Many things that we hold dear will likely become obsolete in the future. When we no longer need to depend on things in life that are not satisfying - we will be making progress.

Art (in it’s myriad forms) tends to reflect the times, who can say what will be the face of art in the era ahead.

It’s hard to imagine how wonderful life could be without suffering (thoughts are mood congruent);

mdma.net

With our current design - we would quickly die off if we did not suffer - very true. Abolitionism requires a change in the fundamental design of the motivational system. A possible interim solution would be to change our neurological design so that humans are motivated by gradients of bliss rather than the pain and (relative) pleasure axis.

We define suffering as all aversive experience.