Hellfire and Brimstone in School

[Provalone]

Okay, I’m a junior in high school. Currently, I’m taking an online English course. It is American Literature. In the very beginning of the course it starts out chronological, briefly brushing upon Native American creation myths, then colonial poetry and historical narratives of the Puritans. The last piece of reading I had to tread through was a sermon by Jonathan Edwards (no, not the Crossing Over psychic dude), a hellfire and brimstone minister and one time president of Princeton University. It is unimaginably difficult to explain what I read so I will give an excerpt. Keep in mind, this is all for school credit.

@Jonathan Edwards

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God’s hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.

O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment.

Needless to say, this disturbed the shit out of me. It’s not just because I’m an atheist, I doubt that has anything to do with it. I can’t really explain it, I don’t want to sound whiny but it really creeps me out that this is necessary reading for a high school American Literature class. Granted it is literature and American, but is it necessary? I’m sure there is plenty of colonial literature from that time that withholds an equal amount of pertinence and far less hellfire and brimstone.

What do you think?

[Xunzian]

Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man has similar fire-and-brimstone scenes, should that not be taught? Paradise Lost’s entire theme is Christian, should that not be taught? Grapes of Wrath is a Biblical allegory, should that not be taught? Heck, the Bible is pretty darned Christian, and I think that should be taught as literature.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with learning about religion in school. I also don’t see anything wrong with reading period literature that is all fire-and-brimstone. I mean, really, getting into the head of the Puritans helps explain a lot of early American history, a history that echoes down to this day. I think lit like that is important for both American history and American literature.

[Provalone]

@Xunzian

Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man has similar fire-and-brimstone scenes, should that not be taught? Paradise Lost’s entire theme is Christian, should that not be taught? Grapes of Wrath is a Biblical allegory, should that not be taught? Heck, the Bible is pretty darned Christian, and I think that should be taught as literature.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with learning about religion in school. I also don’t see anything wrong with reading period literature that is all fire-and-brimstone. I mean, really, getting into the head of the Puritans helps explain a lot of early American history, a history that echoes down to this day. I think lit like that is important for both American history and American literature.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I was just taken aback by it. I mean they basically said, “Here, read this Christian sermon and take careful note of the imagery portrayed in it.” It was really blatant.

By the way, Xun, there’s a guy in the philosophy section who needs help with ontological Buddhism for a paper. I figured you’d be able to help him out.

@Churro the Viscous

My AP English teacher when I was a junior had us read a sermon by a hellfire and brimstone type guy as well. The teacher, however, was an atheist, so I know he wasn’t doing it to push us to believe anything.

The point, I think, is to teach Rhetoric and Persuasion techniques.

Yeah, one of the vocabulary terms associated with the sermon is ‘loaded language’ so I’m sure my teacher was making the same point.

[Uccisore]

Needless to say, this disturbed the shit out of me. It’s not just because I’m an atheist, I doubt that has anything to do with it. I can’t really explain it, I don’t want to sound whiny but it really creeps me out that this is necessary reading for a high school American Literature class. Granted it is literature and American, but is it necessary? I’m sure there is plenty of colonial literature from that time that withholds an equal amount of pertinence and far less hellfire and brimstone.

As a theist, it disturbs me too for an opposite reason. The presentation could easily be a “Look at how shitty and evil organized religion can be!” type of thing, and of course if any counter-message was presented to give both sides, the ACLU would sue somebody.

[Provalone]

@Uccisore

Needless to say, this disturbed the shit out of me. It’s not just because I’m an atheist, I doubt that has anything to do with it. I can’t really explain it, I don’t want to sound whiny but it really creeps me out that this is necessary reading for a high school American Literature class. Granted it is literature and American, but is it necessary? I’m sure there is plenty of colonial literature from that time that withholds an equal amount of pertinence and far less hellfire and brimstone.

As a theist, it disturbs me too for an opposite reason. The presentation could easily be a “Look at how shitty and evil organized religion can be!” type of thing, and of course if any counter-message was presented to give both sides, the ACLU would sue somebody.

Yeah, I can see how that can make a lot of sane, moderate Christians upset. Not only is that something they are against but it is also something that makes them look bad. It’s like moderate Muslims getting the evil eye from people for wearing a shawl or something.

I have a simple question though. If I were German and lived in Germany and went to a German school and took the equivalence of German Literature, would I have to read Mein Kampf?

[Uccisore]

I have a simple question though. If I were German and lived in Germany and went to a German school and took the equivalence of German Literature, would I have to read Mein Kampf?

My understanding is that the book is outlawed there, so no.

[Xunzian]

It is actually only illegal to republish the book, and only in the southern state of Bavaria. I know that, at least in the High School where I was, the advanced history class devoted the entire 13th Grade to Nazi Germany, and excerpts from Mein Kampf are read.

[Provalone]

Okay, does anyone know by what standards public schools consolidate their literary curricula? What or more importantly who determines what literary pieces are more important than others given the limited time frame of the average semester?

[Uccisore]

Cool, thanks Xunzian.