Here it is: "The best offer in town!"...

While vacuuming the house (with my invented central system> unit outside) I had an idea: I think unconsciously I joined this forum to promote in the hope to meet up with some equally minded individuals. My initial idea was to exchange some basic, philosophical thoughts and from that hoping to build up a trusty association with say, two to 4 individuals. Since we know each other only through forum contact a healthy amount of distrust is to be acceptable. Since I invested some 45 years of hard work into philosophical pondering and truly believe that my philosophical guidelines are an invaluable tool for personal, philosophical development, I would suggest accepting my work as the base for “something at all on the table”. From then in co-operation our association would refine every aspect of my work. Having re-written the entire concept, we would then aim at publishing our work and enjoy and share our success and last not least the profits as well. - How about that? Just an idea… Take it or leave it! (But of course if you aspiring philosophers don’t stop rubbishing my endeavor to create something constructive together, then there’s nothing for you to take or to leave!) jjj

Look, Triple J, it’s a real pleasure to watch you playing, but I wonder just for how long will you be able to continue in the same vein?..

Dear Somov,

Dear Tavarish Somov,
(Your forum name sounds Russian to me…that’s why I put “comrade” in front of it… :smiley: )

I’m saddened that you are the only one to take up my offer in this somewhat negative way. Your interest on my offer seem to be focused on the last bit of my offer, which says >>(But of course if you aspiring philosophers don’t stop rubbishing my endeavor to create something constructive together, then there’s nothing for you to take or to leave!) How disappointing and frustrating for us all!
You are also right by saying: “I wonder just for how long will you be able to continue…?”, because talking my dear wife about the forum, she asked me: “Why you get involved in this… haven’t you got better things to do?” She’s right, you know? Yet, occasionally I love to test the waters. It’s part of my philosophical adventure. In that I have the spirit of an explorer and/or pioneer… Life is great and I love to get things done. jjj

The word “comrade” is a bit outdated. But it may soon become relevant again, as the Dark Ages of communism seem to be returning, judging by the last events in Russia.

I’m afraid, my “philosophical development” has not been sufficient, and does not allow me to contribute significantly to “refining of every aspect of your work”. But anyway, I wish you every possible success.

Hi Somov,

In this forum I’m almost used to get bashed up… That’s the reason why I decided on such peculiar responses. I have to be ready to go either way! (Sorry if I my response to your first posting “how long I’ll last” was a bit defensive… because only now I realize you are a gentleman.) What I don’t understand is that most philo-forums discuss little practical philosophy. Most of the subjects are rather academic theories. I wonder how we will ever be able to improve society with the results?
Young people need pragmatic advice on how recognize and develop their inherited needs, how to enjoy a wonderful partner relationship, how to bring back love to children, why grandparents are vital etc.
I think you red a few of my postings and I the bombardment I got. Yes, I know my show off didn’t go down well, but then again my good example didn’t either. I think either way my philosophical achievement will remain meaningless at least to this forum. Fortunately, I have “my sheep safe under the roof” i.e. my old-age is secured and don’t depend on selling my books or CD’s. - I just popped up here to test American waters of young Americans. God bless America! I say no more. >>> I hope they re-direct their bombs to Osama & Sadam…not to me!
Well, I just thought to let you know of my experiences in this forum… Regards from Chile jjj

Please excuse my jumping in here,
your not used to get bashed up, you came in here acting like you own the place. JJJ, if you have ever visited other countries, did you go there telling everyone that they are to act according to what you want? Did you tell everyone how to do their job? Did you talk to the people as though they were stupid, ignorant, and neive because they weren’t form your country? Did you fail to respect their ways no matter how they were different from your country? Did you ignore their, at first, soft attempts at informing you that things were different there and that you needed to adapt? If not, why do you do it here?

JJJ stated:

If you have to be ready to go either way it means you are only hear to put others down, yourself up, to win arguments, and to talk at us instead of with us. You are worse then a traitor in that you will say whatever suites you best, you have no loyalty to logic, rationality, netiquette, nor the decency to explain your neive notions.

JJJ stated:

Here are ILP we have a very good mixture, in my opinion, of both theoretical as well as pragmatic philosophy.

JJJ stated:

Then you are seriously lacking in understanding of theory. There is practice only because of theory. Ofcourse there is the obvious notion of being too theoretical and not practical enough, but we don’t have that problem here.

JJJ stated:

You just won’t stop preaching will you. Ofcourse children need pragmatic advice, but who are you to give it? The world has changed more than you can imagine from the time you were a child. You think there is love in children when they don’t talk back to your demeaning, patronizing, and neive purports of advice. Unfortunately for you, children now have a mind of their own. And they are way ahead of YOU, they’ve figured out that they need practical knowledge and have attained it, they know how to develop their inherited needs, they have wonderful partners in relationships (compared to way back when - when people on average were married at 18 and didn’t know what they were getting themselves into), moreover - nowadays children are quitting school in order to take care of their grandparents. Did you hear that? They are destroying their own lives in order to take care of their grandparents. Another important distinction is that children, now, have love for their parents because they truly love them and not because they are made to act as though they love them through the use of fear. That is what is beautiful about our present generation. Sure you can come up with thousands of criticisms, and I can come up with 2000 criticisms about your generation. The point is that times are different and you are still stuck in the old time, which is fine as long as your not FORCING your ideologies down our throats.

JJJ stated:

NO TRULY INTELLIGENT PERSON WHO IS SURE OF THEMSELVES WOULD EVER come in here and show off!!!

JJJ stated:

Apparently you know less than I thought. This board is based in the UK. Those who made it are from the UK. Most of the members on ILP, correct me if I’m wrong, are from the UK. I personally am Canadian. There are plenty of other members from all around the world. Many of the members here contain PhD’s or are specialists in their topic. No one has been so obtuse as to label this board American or so stupefied as to label us YOUNG. There are many here who are over 30. There are some who are even in their 50’s and 60’s. An although you may very well be the oldest of them all, I cannot find it in me to say anything as nice as I have said to the worst of the others.

What’s your take?

Gadfly,

Your tone is still very offensive… I am sure you too know how to writ without all that “brown stuff” around it.
For instance Gadfly wrote to me (respectfully):
“Did you talk to the people as though they were stupid, ignorant, and neive because they weren’t form your country?”
You are worse then a traitor in that you will say whatever suites you best, you have no loyalty to logic, rationality, netiquette, nor the decency to explain your neive notions.

You accuse me of horrible crimes! Little’s missing I’ll be on the electric chair…

Please don't teach me that >>> today's young people are way ahead of ME, they've figured out that they need practical knowledge and have attained it, they know how to develop their inherited needs, they have wonderful partners in relationships (compared to way back when - when people on average were married at 18 and didn't know what they were getting themselves into), moreover - nowadays children are quitting school in order to take care of their grandparents. 

God bless Canada!  I say no more... and no to polar bears! "Did you hear that?"  I know my show off still ...didn't go down well. Do you want me to burn my talents, videos, CD's, books and tear down my websites? I will master, I will!   (Polar bears love submissive prey and fire crackers!)

My take is...
Please  change your tone! Don't play the polar bear anymore!   jjj

Polar bear has gone into hiding in his igloo…

Sorry about that, JJJ, but I approved your style, so, I think I have to intervene.

Gadfly:

“JJJ, if you have visited other countries…”

Visiting this forum is not similar to visiting other countries.

“…did you go there telling everyone that they are to act according to what you want?”

I don’t remember JJJ telling that.

“Did you tell everyone how to do their jobs?”

I don’t remember JJJ telling that.

“Did you talk to people as though they were stupid, ignorant, or neive because they weren’t from your country?”

Didn’t you understand, that the man was joking? Is not a person allowed to make jokes?

Now: there may have been some irony regarding western institutions, and the way things are done in the west. But why did you take it as a personal offence?

“You are worse than a traitor…”

Now: do you remember JJJ insulting somebody?

You are a very intelligent person, living in a country with a long tradition of democracy. Now – do you sincerely believe, that you have a RIGHT to insult sombody, just because he made a few jokes, not directed against somebody in person, nor to any particular country?

I think you wonderful philosophers are even better at psychology, too!

I’m worse at the latter… so, I hope you all are going to straighten me up …but gently please, because I’m not used to moth-eaten tones… f I’m forced to adapt I may sound ridiculous… I’m much a amicable person than most of you like to admit.
May I suggest how to replan the wole tactic?
How about, if you first try to be nice to any “who cares how eccentric” newcomer or visitor and then, after you really get to know them, decide on how to face them? :smiley: jjj

Somov,
I have explicated my points in the previous post as well as others in different forums. Your above response appears to be based on literally what JJJ has stated, while my post was about the implications of what he has said. There is a sense in which things can be taken different ways, usually they are able to be neatly differentiated into two categories, 1)positive 2) negative. I always try to assume that people are intending the first, but after experience, as with JJJ, I saw that although JJJ was saying he meant well, that isn’t what his posts were coming across as despite the fact that he kept saying he did. It is not from any one sentence or word that JJJ has written that my issue comes up, in fact, it is with the overview I am left with having read many (possibly all) of his posts. Having said that, let me analyse your post a little closer…

I stated:

Somov responded:

Really, why not? If you focus on how I chose to make the analogy, you may notice that I was relating the issue of coming to a new country where things are different. Now if we relate that to this forum and JJJ, we can see that JJJ coming here has made many uncomfortable, simply because of his pretencious attitude, his inability to justify his answers, his ignoring many questions (not just with me), and so on. If you like, I can quote questions I and others posed to illustrate my above points. Regardless of that, many of us tried to come in and gently tell JJJ what appears to be the problem. Appears, is used here intentionally, for it allows the accused to justify his actions and shows that the accuser isn’t dead set that JJJ is wrong - what we got as a response was basically along the lines of that we won’t understand because he aren’t on a high enough philosophical plain like him, and so on.

I stated to JJJ:

Somov responded:

No see, you have to look between the lines, which means you have do some philosophy and look at the implications of peoples words. There are numerous statements that JJJ has made which literally say we should do things this or that way. Now there is nothing wrong with that perse, since it is merely his opinion. But it is the general overview of his posts that shows that he doesn’t think he is sharing his opinion, he thinks he is stating fact. There are also sentence which JJJ makes that are along the lines of “I don’t want to hear what you have to say, I am only here to talk at you.” Ofcourse, it isn’t word for word…but let me stop with these accusations and provide you with some proof…

JJJ stated:

Somov, there is no sense in which any of us are envious of JJJ. There is no reason to think so, but saying the above is a great way of defending yourself when you think yourself to be as high as JJJ does. But this is just the starter, let’s go to the real meat and bones of my reasoning…

JJJ stated:

For someone to realize that they may not be absolutely right, and hence have potential for humility, and that there is room for error is one who hears others out and does some constructive reasoning. But our JJJ on his holy high horse cannot imagine how anything could improve the contentment and quality of life. The last statements makes it almost sound as though he is king over us all who is only in disarray as to how God will share his treasures…if this doesn’t strike you as pretencious, then I don’t know what will. But jjj goes on…

JJJ stated:

No one said anything about him burning anything, it as though he is having a conversation with himself. No matter what anyone says he keeps referring back to his books, videos, talents, Cd’s etc. A person who truly has all those things, would never come in here articulating himself the way JJJ does. Simply because they wouldn’t need to. In fact, I’m not even convinced that JJJ is anything older than 16.

JJJ stated:

JJJ had expressed his opinion on what children need, I simply pointed out that they don’t need it because they already have it and that things are different now. The above was his response to my posted argument. First of all, I wasn’t teaching him, I was sharing my opinion on the matter with him. Secondly, just because one doesn’t agree with what I have to say, what right do they have to tell me not to teach them that? As though I was forcing my opinions on him. You see, there is alot of connotation, presumption, and implication to JJJ’s words. It isn’t as simple as defining each word, it’s in the structure and semantics of the overall posts by JJJ.

JJJ stated:

Here is a light version of JJJ telling us how to act. This board doesn’t claim to be democratic, although I do believe it is run quite fairly. There is a sense in which allowing certain types of posters poisons, deteriorates, and taints the entire board. I have seen it often times before, one such example is Mr. Lee - who was actually very much like JJJ in their personality of posting, although they would appear to be on complete different ends of the spectrum concerning their topics of interest. This is all my opinion, for a full disclosure of an answer to the above you would have to consult the moderators, or even better the administrator (Ben).

JJJ stated:

Once again, bringing his whole holy high horse into the picture (45 years of work) to substantiate why we should accept JJJ words. Let me tell you how I work, I don’t care if someone is black, white, yellow, green, blue, tall, short, old, young, fat, skinny, I take what they have to say with equal regard. Where would we get if all we focused on was making statements like “Well, Ben I was published in the University newspaper yesterday, therefore you should consider my argument more” or “I was on TV the other day so what do you want me to do, go and burn the tape?” - Like what does any of that have to do with truth or falsehood? If a four year old comes to me and says “Mr.Magius, I don’t believe math has certainty” and an 84 year old comes to me and says “Mr. Magius, math is certain” = I’m going to say, Octogenarian, in my opinion the four year old is correct and you are incorrect…but guess what the hell else I’m going to do Somov, I’M GOING TO BACK UP WWWHHHHYYYY I BELIEVE THE FOUR YEAR OLD IS MORE CORRECT THAN THE OCTOGENARIAN. Something our over 61 year old JJJ could learn from. Yes JJJ, there is actually something here for you to learn. In fact, I predict that you will learn more from us than any of us will ever learn from you. For the simple fact that we are open to many interpretations, we don’t preach, and we don’t patronize. And we don’t dismiss each others opinions as “Don’t teach me that”.

JJJ stated:

The above statement presupposes that we are to let JJJ act in the way he has been acting, which has been explained to JJJ to not be working by several members. Instead of respecting our concerns, he writes the above and says we are rubbishing his endeavor to create something constructive. More importantly, his audacity kicks in at the last line…which carries the connotation with it that if we don’t let him do things his way then there is nothing we have. We have been doing quite fine without ya JJJ, in fact, I would dare to say that this simple little niche on the internet has helped changed over a dozen lives; for the better. It wasn’t done by telling people that they are rubbishing their endeavors, nor was it done in a patronizing and preaching manner.

JJJ stated:

Once again the holy high white horse comes galloping to our midst with the above assertion. I say assertion because it is either true or false, and I choose to have the same audacity as JJJ except I will say that it is wrong. How can JJJ know that all of his readers were greatful, I mean it’s a little embellishment, but if you go through all of JJJ’s posts you will notice a common trend in doing this. In fact, I think it is time to put an end to JJJ’s parading around here as he has…JJJ what exactly is your name? I ask so that I can go an investigate the 600 books you have published, should it turn out to be true, I will renounce everything I have said and give a formal apology.

JJJ stated:

You have much to learn JJJ, if you are merely at the stage of doing as others do when they wrong you. Furthermore, you last line is insulting for it assumes that those who are good at offending people are those who haven’t received much love during childhood. In fact, it has been my experience that those who had all the love they could imagine turned out the worst, actually they usually turn out not only mean, but also depressed. But I don’t mean this to be a generalization, just telling you what my personal experience has taught me.

JJJ stated:

You may try to copy me all you like JJJ, you will never be me. I suggest being yourself, REGARDLESS, of what others say to you on this board. That is my honest advice to you to help you be happy here. Did you also know that one of the most common tactics to mock, demean, and make fun of someone is by copying them? I would have thought that someone at your age would know that by now. If you do, you should watch out for that and explain when you catch yourself copying others in order to make sure your not misunderstood.

JJJ stated:

This is what I was talking about in one of my first posts regarding JJJ, the attitude in which he is only hear to preach, to give advice like an adult to a child. The adult acts as though they are doing it for the childs benefit, but really they are doing it to make themselves feel better by feeling themselves having done a good deed by espousing supposed great knowledge upon the child. What they forget, as JJJ has, that there is a great responsibility with giving advice, and that is that if you consider the fact that you might be wrong (ofcourse JJJ has not) then you may be hurting the child.

JJJ stated:

No, no one HAS to do it. Unfortunately it usually turns out that way. Once again my accusation has been confirmed from one of my first posts to JJJ, and that is that he thinks himself old than us all. Regardless of the fact that I told him that it is likely that others are older. I feel the need to stress the next point more…OLD AGE “NOT=” KNOWLEDGE by necessity. Hence, when someone of an old age says something, there is the chance that they are speaking wisdom because of their experience, but there is just as much a chance that all that experience has only worked to confuse and contradict what they say and no matter how good or right they feel, they will invariably be wrong.

What’s your take?

I thank you for your comments. We all are entitled to our opinion and to quality of life. If you dear Somov (like me) already found and enjoy highest possible contentment and quality of life, then you really don’t need my good example of how I found mine. As mentioned, there are many ways to get there and mine was just one of them.
Thus, I really cannot see how more of the same sort of wisdom, which I require for my quality of life, could improve my objective? - I’m simply proud of my philosophical success and I don’t mind helping young people in need to achieve the same or more. In your words, “I love to share my white horse with all young people in need of quality of life”… You see I’m very uncomplicated, frank and generous. I think you overdo by painting me too big and in too many colors… Incitentally, have you checked my talent of whistling? jdrinda.tripod.com I love Russian Gypsy Music… I’m positive, after that you’ll consider re-writing your comments …spasiva! jjj

Gadfly

First of all – I perfectly understand the reasons of your resentment with JJJ. I appreciate your patience, that led to giving me a detailed account of JJJ’s crimes, but it was not needed, since it is all a matter of motivation, and motivation can not be proved by a detailed textual analysis.

On the other hand, blaming the person of the IMPLICATIONS of what he said is very different from blaming the person of what he actually said.

What I’m trying to say is very simple. If somebody prefers to make a joke of himself (and that is what JJJ’s style was all about), then you shouldn’t take him or his words seriously. If you engage in any sort of serious dispute with him, you are just adding to his “contentment” and “quality of life”, as he understands it. If you begin to insult him, you are losing your moral advantage, and you become no better then him.

I’m not telling you what you should or should not do – I’m just trying to explain my perception of the situation.

My opinion is, that if somebody loves to make a joke of himself – let him enjoy himself! So, I just watched the performance. It was a good entertainment.

Tastes differ, though…

Somov stated:

I guess if one says that their point is VERY SIMPLE than the person who didn’t get it is just stupid, either that or the person making the statement fails to understand the very deepness of what they are saying. I’ll let you choose. SOMOV, this isn’t a board for jokes. Yes we have jokes, but we designate them into certain threads. Furthermore, JJJ wasn’t making a joke of himself, he was making a joke out of us!!! There is a huge difference there. Yes, JJJ’s style was all a joke, a joke that we didn’t share the humour of and which was deteriorating the board. You would tell us how to act, but you wont apply the same principles to JJJ. Why shouldn’t JJJ take our words seriously!?! Especially when he comes here, I mean if he had his own board then I would understand. But coming here, and after having many members tell him their concerns and for him to ignore and make fun of them is just rude…but ofcourse you already are very well aware of all this right?

Somov stated:

Well then good for him, why the hell are you trying to stop us!?! Are you trying to stop adding to JJJ’s contentment and quality of life?

Somov stated:

I don’t know what kind of morals you got, from reading your posts they obviously ain’t anything like what I have ever seen. If by insulting him I lose my moral advantage and become no better than him, and him is JJJ, he who has found quality of life…then according to your own argument we should all be insulting JJJ in order to be more like him…happy.

What’s your take?

LOL - he said you would be no better than him. That allows for being worse! It is fun to watch people criticising other people and offering their advice and trying to do it in a nice way. Some people take all forms of criticism as offensive, and for them there is no nice way to be criticised.

I don’t know you people well enough to know if the last sentence applies to any of you, but just remember that there is constructive as well as negative criticism. It’s not like any of you are saying ‘look at me everyone, I rule and you all suck!’

“I don’t know you people well enough to know if the last sentence applies to any of you”

It applies to me every day, but I’m on the recieving end of it. Especially at work. I see that offering suggestions to my superiors(the guy who signs the check) is more threatening to my job then it is beneficial. This is absurd. Logic shows us that if we complete a job before a quota there will be a bigger profit. We all want more money…but not if our pride and ignorance writes a check that our intelligence can’t cash. I do not introduce better and more efficient methods and techniques to my coworkers as a show of arrogance or prestige. I couldn’t care less what the idiots I work with think about me. I am not there to make any friends, I am there to work. Being that the idiots cannot even understand this much, it is expected that they think I’m playing some kind of “who’s the coolest” and best carpenter game when I suggest alternative methods. Hey, you can do it ass-backwards all day AS LONG AS I am not involved, affected, or in their case, hindered. But numbers don’t lie, mathematics has no pride,…most of them can’t even spell “Pythagorean[sic?] theorum” much less use it to square a wall.

I’m sorry. This has become a rant. I…I apologize.

that’s so funny how he managed to work in about his invented central vacuuming system.

too bad jjj left the forums before he could organize a SUPER TEAM of expert philosophers! then we could wander the world, educating children, since they’re so ignorant, and they love to be told what to do by wiser old people with whistling skills.