Hey, another 9/11 thread!

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
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prisonplanet.com/articles/se … debate.htm

Alright so the purpose of this thread will be to debate this… debate drumroll. Ah but seriously folks… I’m gonna say anything in the way of judgement cause I want you to do that yourself, but what I do want you to do is as follows (even though I know everyone here would likely do this anyways):

Watch the demeanor of the kids – Are they ignorant to what they are saying, or merely acting their age?

Watch the demeanor of the adults – Do these people appear nervous? How do they fare against some of the more direct questions?

Watch the argument – Keep a chart, watch it a couple times, but what are the points, and what are the answers here? How many times is a point answered, then redirected into a peripheral point; and how many points are ignored and then redirected into a peripheral/irrelevant point (holocaust denial, for example).

Keep in mind this is the big leagues here ladies and gents, we’re watching, essentially the experts in terms of the information available. That isn’t to be confused with the experts in the individual fields themselves. If you can, check your prejudgments at the door.

Finally, if you see something of intrigue ask about it, but google and some common sense is there as an option as well.

…

Any points referring to the website, the rest of the article (although certainly read it) or the shirt that Dylan Avery is wearing, will not be responded to because they are irrelevant. Anything referring to Gobbo’s personal character in general will be ignored. Having said that though, if you feel inclined to make a post that falls under any of these guidlines feel free to do so, as I will be using your ignorance as data for something I am researching.

That’s right folks… flame away :smiley:

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Jason Bermas is very articulate!
I did notice that the adults tended to ignore about 85% of what Jason said and then took one point they decide to pick apart and what they do is simply deny what has been said.
I’m only halfway through though it though, I’ll see how this turns out.

So far I was angered by “We’re not going back to consipiracy theories during the Kennedy era.”
Umm…okay, these guys aren’t either.

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Now the assholes are making stuff up and ignoring the arguements!!!

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Yeah that Jason guy was quite articulate eh. Some of those points sounded memorized, which is decent considering their lengths.

In their defense, some of the PM guys did sound like they had some memorized lines as well. Although their lengths tended to literally be comprised of a single line.

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Okay so…these guys are old. End of story, you can’t argue with an old asshole. Because they hate consipiracies.

What are you a holocaust denier? A creationist? A fuckin lunatic?

Because there is no possibility that you are anything else, you dirty conspiracy theorist, ignorant kids with their loud music and their motorcycles.

Oh and by the way, we fully support any movement to get the truth about 9/11…as long as it doesn’t involve a conspiracy theory. Cmon!?! A conspiracy perpetuated by the government!?! Now thats just social taboo there buddy, can’t be supporting that!

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See I think you’re wrong there.

It’s different with Imp or Faust or someone… those PM guys actually know the truth. The PM guys are not being stubborn, I don’t think. They’re just flat out lying – albiet they do a -somewhat- decent job as making it look like the opposite.

Again, this is my personal opinion but I think that if they actually believed that they were right, they would have shown -some- sort of emotion towards the kids but they carefully tried to keep it in check whilst stumbling over their scripted lies. They knew ahead of time they would lose the debate, horribly, but they said the right stuff to perpetuate the various bias’ like ‘conspiracy theorists’, the most powerful and controlling catch phrase in the history of the world.

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Well Gobbo I don’t know who knows the truth, and I’m not sure how you can be sure that they do know the truth (so tell me).

But they are still using that arguement of “Agh!! Conspiracy theory!!” to dissuade the general population from it.
They don’t really do any healthy job of debunking anything apart from saying “Well our physical evidence, blah blah blah. Well our experts, blah blah blah.” And make up facts that are complete bullshit.

I found it particularly ironic when they compared this theory to Holocaust denial.

Its funny, because I thought that they would do a much better job of debunking this stuff. They really did a shitty job.
However if my mother or my sister were to watch it, they would be yelling “Burn the witch!!” along with everyone else who is afraid of conspiracies or refuses to acknowledge them.

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That’s my point.

When you can’t use facts (cause you know the truth and know making stuff up cleverly just won’t work) you do what they do, and attack the character of the person. Like most of the posts we see around here – that in turn distorts the facts they speak.

So in that sense they actually did the best job they could, given the requirements on them (lack of anything that makes sense)

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Wow… I saw quite the opposite thing happening. I saw two kids who went looking for a conspiracy and “found” one. I saw two guys who went looking for the “truth” and “found” it. They both looked for what they happened to find (what a coincidence!) BUT, here’s the few main things I noticed about their debating styles:

  1. The kids memorized their speeches and spent a LOT of time learning how to talk and talk and talk without hesitation. (Credibility Points: +1!)
  2. The PM guys didn’t. They spent more time preparing their speeches and not practicing them. (Credibility Points: -1!)
  3. The kids were rude, insulting, and interrupting, thus destroying some (not all) of their credibility. (Credibility Points: -3!)

I think the PM guys actually had the truth, but then I don’t tend to believe a lot of conspiracy theories (and don’t kid yourself, that’s exactly what it was, true or not.) I don’t know who was actually telling the truth but I’ll bet both sides sincerely believed they were. The difference between their views of each other was the adults thought the kids were mistaken, and the kids thought the adults were lying.

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Photo Reuters/Jeff Christensen


http://runn.smugmug.com/keyword/wtc/1/3499556
These people were part of the conspiracy.


Fire? What fire? Those were bombs planted by the CIA (or the FBI).

-Thirst

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lol

Evidently they were standing in 1300 + degree fires though right?

lol.

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I think they jumped because it was getting cold in there…
That and the fact that we’re all in the Matrix.

-Thirst

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Here’s another picture from that link you posted.

All I can say is, that looks a lot like a missile to me. :unamused:

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As a general rule, I think it is in poor taste to post pictures up of someone comitting suicide based upon a situation in which they didn’t have much choice in the matter simply to “make a point”.

“Kids, look, there’s grandma jumping out the window of the World Trade Center! Quick! Someone get a shot of this so Thirst can make a point with it! Yeah, I’d say she’s got all of probably twenty seconds left to live and she’s probably under some pretty serious duress, but fuck her anyway, Thirst NEEDS this to make a point!”

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Another clever arguement of debunkers is to cite really shitty conspiracy theories.

For example, nobody thinks that a missle ran into the WTC and most people don’t think that 1000s of people were involved in this plot.
Citing these arguements does not debunk the arguements that are actually sound.

Also using suffering and pain to prove a point does nothing to actually uncover the truth about what happened.

By the way, was who was trying to say that there wasn’t any fire? Does this matter, is it relevant? No, it is simply ignoring the point at hand and distracting from the actual relevant points.

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Okay OG,… It is 2:30 AM and I can’t stop watching this - darn you. I am fascinated by this thread and liked the way you brought us in - like any good teacher in my ILP classroom.

Those kids sold me hook, line, and sinker and the PMs were scrambling. I just wish the kids hadn’t gotten so uppity because their credibility lowered immensely to me… we could learn from that in our own little foot-stomping virtual world here - but those damn bureaucrat oldies - they would have given me a frustration nose bleed, so the kiddies hung in there. I still give them a 9. Where do I download their movie?

I will finish it tomorrow. Great thread.

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video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 4339766288

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go to bed. :laughing:

thanks!

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i can’t watch it, slow dial up. Any summarys?

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another blockbuster?

where is superman?.. at least there is a theory of conspirancy to explain what no one wants to believe.

there is no spoon