Hey Whitelotus!

got two questions for you,

  1. What do you think of the application of Heidegger to questions of Deep Ecology?

  2. Is there anywhere in Plato that you know of where Socrates specifically speaks about violence? What would the word for strife be in Greek?

I tell you what I’m getting at.

From hippolytus and Diogenes Laertius, we have two interesting quotes from heraclitus. I’m going to give you the english, so just chill.

“War (or Strife) is father of all, king of all: some it has shown as gods, some as men; some it has made slaves, some free.”

“you should quench violence more quickly than a fire.”

“the people should fight for the law as for the city walls”

From these and other quotes we can see the absolute fear that the Greeks had of contagious violence and the eradication of differences in the society that result from the cycle of vengeance. Violence is quelled with a victim. The most famous example of this sacrificial victim-type is Oedipus in Oedipus Rex.

I am trying to situate this project of philosophy against its enemy brother, violence. I am also trying to see the prehistory poking its head through the writing and I’m looking for Indo-European folkways and other pre-historical myth as it influences pre-socratic and Socratic philosophy.

Look, Plato is only a couple of generations (in the big scheme of things) removed from mass Indo-European migration, the origin of agriculture and the Despotic State, and the use of writing as a method of control and keeping tabs on things. To me, it makes more sense to view Greek thought as related to the IE mythology that surrounds it and not as a new Point without history.

I am rambling because these thoughts are only three to six months old


Whitelotus, I’ve never objected to being challenged. I have problems with having my time wasted with responses that are little more than noise and say nothing more than “I’m better than you”. It’s dumb and worthless.

To all of your above objections, I respond, I know. Actually stronger than that, I respond, DUH!.

paragraph A. I refer to the threat of violence hanging over Creon, Tiresias, and Oedipus. How does one achieve justice? through murder and violence and retribution. this whole issue of justice is what The white man wants you to believe it’s about. DAMN WHITEY!!!

Paragraph B- Organized warfare is not what he’s talking about, but rather internecine strife; all against all the hobbsian state of nature. Organized State warfare is a whole other discussion. Heraclitus is talking about the hell that arises when revenge takes on a life of its own and everyone fights gainst everyone because all must take vengeance upon all. Heraclitus is terrified of the Mob. just look at the amount of time he spends talking about how good the wise man is and how horrible and stupid the mob is. Heraclitus is not some elitist fool. He’s seen Mob violence and is scared of it.

Paragraph C- I am aware of tragic ambiguity. Whitelotus contrary to your expectations, I am no unread teenager. (My apologies to the well-read teenagers out there, I’m not slighting you)

Paragraph D- No shit, I’ve read my Vico, I know how different they are. I even know the difference in the type of historiography that creates the illusion that they are similar. I have no view of the separation of differences that the Greek cosmovision must obey. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

White Lotus, join me. Join me and we will rule the Universe as father and son. hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmpppppprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr hhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmpppppprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

that’s it I give up. You dumb son of a bitch, you can’t even read.

this is what I posted

Where In the name of god do you pull out the fact that I think that the Modern West and the Ancient greeks have similar worldviews?

Dude, I can take being insulted and I can take being made fun of, but I will not take being misrepresented just so you can further your little pissing contest. I am amazed you would so baldly misunderstand or misrepresent my presentation.

When I am done with what I am going to do no one will respond to your posts, you lying hack.


Please keep your temper when using these forums. If you do not agree with a post please deal with it in the appropriate manner rather than calling people names. If you do not wish to be in conversation with people I’d recommend not asking them direct questions.

  • ben

c’mon Ben. Why are you choosing now to moderate? I’ve called whitelotus much worse names than this. Please check the entire "epistemology… " thread. Only now when I threaten to discredit him by telling people how he completely disrespects and misrepresents the person he’s debating with, am I scolded? Really now, the only thing this leads me to do is suspect that whitelotus has told on me.

Ben, I have dealt with Whitelotus’s posts in the appropriate manner. I have posted several lengthy and well argued posts disputing what he has said. All that mr. Lotus has done has been to insult me, insult whoever posts in the same thread he posts in and then he criticizes your site. On numerous occasions he has ridiculed the quality of this site, both in terms of content and technical quality.

I am actually VERY surprised that you have singled me out. It seems very arbitrary and entirely unnecessary. Please do me the favor and ask around about White Lotus.

Mr John McNally, aka hermes the thrice great.

I know you go a Phil degree Hermes but what do you do for a living?

I am a property manager but I am working towards becoming an Firefighter/Paramedic and then an Anthropology PhD

funny stuff. ben… while i agree that there should be no flaring of tempers in a philosophy forum, i can’t blame Hermes for getting worked up. whitelotus is consistently rude and unyielding… he has a very negative attitude towards people on this board and uses ILP to “flex his muscles” rather than get new ideas, learn things, etc etc (as the rest of us do, presumably). i’m not sure if any of the serious members here actually take him seriously, let alone respect him.

if he could cut out the negative attitude and the arrogance, he could really contribute a lot to ILP!

Hey how does Heidegger interpret this passage from Anaximander?

Where things are born, there too must they perish; for each in turn metes out punishment and expiation for its wickedness, each in the allotted time

H3M puts banana on floor and awaits funny Dutch answer from WL

Please don’t let yet another thread deteriorate into petty arguments. There is some good content within this thread, let’s try and push it to the forefront and leave the personal out of it.

  • ben

Ben, it’s not going to happen. You might as well shut this thread down. Whitelotus will not respond with anything less than “You’re stupid” and I can no longer take him seriously. What are we supposed to think about somebody who is inactive for nearly a Month at a time and then comes and posts on twenty some-odd threads and in nearly every one he says “I don’t like you. You’re stupid. Everyone at ILP is stupid”.

It’s now to the point where it’s ridiculous to expect anything other than a funny Dutch answer from whitelotus.

being and time?

Early Greek Thinking

dutch ey? i’ll translate if you want :wink: :unamused: