Homophobes, Intolerance, and Other Crutches

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Not sure if this is the correct forum, feel free to move it. I apologize in advance.

Recently, at another forum i visit, someone created the topic “Anybody else here transgendered?” where the seventeen year old explained how he had his testicles removed, breast implants, and plastic surgery on the buttocks. The thread quickly turned into a fifty page encouragement topic, where everyone told this “male-to-female” how they admire his boldness and pursuit after what he wants. Here are some pictures that it posted of itself:

server3.uploadit.org/files/181103-blossom.jpg
server3.uploadit.org/files/181103-mm1.jpg
server3.uploadit.org/files/181103-m11.jpg

I posted my opinion, telling the topic starter that he is still a man, and that i don’t see why he would do such a thing. Quickly, i was snapped at by numerous posters, each calling me homophobic, intolerant, and things of the like.

People call others “Intolerant” for voicing opinions they may not necessarily agree with. They call it discrimination, prejudice, and any other word that may sound cynical and villianish. From time to time, the name Hitler is even branded.

The problem here is the logic, as is almost always the problem. By calling someone intolerant, you are not tolerating their opinions and viewpoints yourself! They are so quick to say “Don’t pass judgement”, but judge you without a second thought.

This topic is not about being a transgender or a homosexual, nor is it about morals or ethical theories. This topic is about the worlds acceptance of so many oddities in society. What made us so “intolerant” before, when showing your ankles was all a woman could really do in public? What makes us so “tolerant” now, and what caused this change in socially acceptable behavior? How far does tolerance go these days? Homosexuals? Transsexuals? Rapists? Murderers?

Nos.

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“This topic is about the worlds acceptance of so many oddities in society. What made
us so “intolerant” before, when showing your ankles was all a woman could really do in public?
What makes us so “tolerant” now, and what caused this change in socially acceptable behavior?”

This is a good question, Nos, because rather than stating exactly what “human” is, it shows that the definition of “human” is changing at many levels. Now, social morals and ethics must be rearranged to accomodate a third gender, it seems. The largest amount of intolerance comes from the religious institutions. Especially Christianity, which dictates that man and woman are distinct, have specific roles, practice monogamy, and are to be “fruitful.” Now that gay marriages are in the limelight some amount of pressure is relieved from more serious matters such as you mentioned. Accordingly, “God” did not create homosexual human beings, and definitely doesn’t want us paying for surgery to become the opposite sex. But…at the same time, conventional Christianity is becoming all the more obscure as those on the left claim that “God” has given us the gift of free choice, the right to be “whoever” we want, our individuality regardless of our sex, as long as we live “moral” lives. I think the “tolerance” is gradual and evolves according to a consensus. Major change in sociopolitical structure happens when there is a deviation from a “norm” at a progressive rate, so that “mores” develop spontaneously, become popular and accepted. Like you said, a dress above the ankles was taboo centuries ago, yet in the last three decades alone, breast implants, sex changes, gay marriages, and blow-up dolls have become a commodity of modern life. To be “human” is to be something that is changing faster than it stays the same, so to speak. Everything that comes with it, religion, science, psychology, is being challenged and redefined as we merge into the future.

To make something “acceptable,” we need only to convince more people than not that, for three monthly installments, one can buy the American dream…whatever suits ya,’ “Gods’” cool with it, I asked him earlier. In fact, I heard rumors that God was going to bring the fig leaf back into style pretty soon. Transexualism is allowed, he said, because its the personal relationship with Jesus that matters, not whether or not we’re male or female…or both.

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I would just like to say there is still two genders. Just because someone is transgendered that doesn’t mean they are in a category all by themselves.

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Just wondering if you have permission to post his pictures? This site can get in big trouble if not.

*~Kayla

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Plus you should never call a person an IT. Sorry if that sounds rude, but it was immorale, even if he’s a she now. Their still a person.

*~Kayla

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All intolerance is a symptom of ignorance, even the good man’s intolerance for the “evil” man, infact it might be the ultimate intoerance…As such intolerance is unavoidable when dealing with masses, for the masses are ignorant…

Expressing dissenting opinion displays no intolerance, but the motives behind this opinion could…And the way it is done could also…Most people that whine about others bein intolerant, are simply hypocrits…

Anyway, what has changed in society, is our knowledge, and with knowledge ignorance leaves, and with the passing of ignorance intolerance follows…

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Not only was it not immoral, it is not even uncommon. I would wager very few human births pass without either of these phrases being uttered. “IT’s a boy!” “IT’s a girl.” How many times have you said “I think IT was someone I know”, or “IT looked like him from a distance.” Also, everytime you say “they” (as you did above) you are expressing a non-gender specific group of people. If we were speaking french, then we could express gender specific groups with “ils” or elles". Unfortunately, it is not acceptable say “hims” or “hers”.

Societies become more tolerant because they have found a way to cope with a previously insurmountable problem. I found it odd that you question when rapists and murders will be acceptable. In Mexico, less than 10% of murders are investigated. There is a desert fullhttp://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20030812-9999_1n12mexico.html of dead raped women that is not being investigated. One of the bodies was buried at an old cemetary with it’s feet protruding from the ground. The charge levied, clandestine burial.
Some will argue that former immoralities should be permissable because they are no longer a threat to society at large. Others may further say that this only applies if you hurt someone else, but I have so far failed to see any real application of pain avoidance. If one of my family members were to change their sex, it would hurt me. Will they not follow through then? Of course they will because they will say I shouldn’t be hurt. I think women shouldn’t be hurt if I give them a quick pinch on the caboose as I pass. They remain unconvinced.

So, in Mexico, they’ve learned that the rape and slaughter of nearly 400 women in a given region is acceptable because they earn little money and the rest of them keep having kids anyways. Do not be shocked that what was once a tragedy is now permissable.

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i think shes hot, props to whoever was able to do it fer em.

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frighter, would that comment make you gay or straight?

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I cant remeber excatly how it went or who said it but theres a quote that says somthing that would result in the destruction of the human race if all humans participated in it is evil or bad. I kind of agree with this. IF everyone was gay then humans would become extict and if everyone was changing there sex (since a transgender cannot have a baby in the case of a male to female) we would also become extict.

Why should we be tolerant of somone like this? Its a mockery of mother nature or god if you belive in it. I guarantee that five years from now that person will look back at what they did and be sorry they did it or they will want to change back.

But then again it is thier body and i guess they should have the right to do what they want with it. but that doesnt mean that everbody that doesnt except them is intolerent and a homophobe.

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Why the hell not?

This sort of thing, to me, PROVES that people are not greater or less due to gender. Sure, perhaps it may be considered rude and against the norm to refer to people as “it”, but really, this shows that there is no better term.

Let me ask you this, do angels have gender?

The soul > the body. Everyone is an it.

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Luckily not everyone is gay, and not everyone wants to be transgendered, so it’s a non-issue. Lots of perfectly moral things would be wrong if everyone did them. Suppose everyone were to take their lunch break at twelve–medical personnel, security guards, everyone. That would be bad, but does this mean you shouldn’t take your lunch break at twelve if you have the opportunity?

This sounds very ignorant. Simply because you don’t want to be transgendered does not give you the right to assume you know what a transgendered person does or doesn’t truly want. And I don’t think Mother Nature’s offended; I mean did she tell you or something? Did God tell you he was offended?

Live and let live brother.

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I, for one, think we should drop this whole notion of a gender. Technologically, we have advanced enough to not need traditional relationships anymore, so why do we still promote them philosophically ?

The only thing that differentiates men and women is a big bunch of prejudices if you ask me. :slight_smile:

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Take a look at this: New Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal.

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From Metavoid’s article:

Does this mean that whoever came up with the anxiety theory is probably the greatest closet-homosexual-homophobe of them all? (If psychoanalysis is correct of course) :stuck_out_tongue:

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God didnt tell me anything. I am just assuming that God would make somone a certain race for a certain reason. That is of corse assuming that there is a God and that he made humans. And when i say mother nature i dont mean somr type of god i just mean the natural prosess.

17

Great discussion!

Great point - if we all murdered, committed suicide, etc.

That is INSANE. Quite a scary thought to think that our own countries may be that far-off.

I don’t know if we become more tolerant because we find ways to cope with problems - what about the modesty issue i mentioned previously? Surely there was no problem present, so what made society thing that it was wrong to show more than your ankles?

Nos.

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I am not homophobic, intolerant or someone that uses any kinds of crutches but I forgot why I left this site before. I am the only original thinker here and no one responds to my ideas or posts or if they do they just want to criticize it with some triviality or nudge me to enter an intellectual chess match. There are many homosexuals in this world with alot of balls so I do not hate homosexuals. What disgusts me is the number of cowards here that think they are so delightfully smart but rarely say anything truly thought provoking. Just because something sounds intellectual doesn’t mean it emobodies “a real living idea”. There is one person here that knows what he is talking about besides me, the rest of you are pansies, flowergirls, who can’t speak meaningfully or face the truth. I am so tired of this intellectual banter. Stop fooling yourselves and get a real job. I have posted on philosophy forums and although I have become too advanced for them, they will always be far and ahead of the people here. This is a pathetic place for soggy wimps. Straigten yourself out. Read all of my posts, try to listen to what someone else has said before your espouse b.s. You are not Einstein, you are a hack. Go ahead, read my crap, its better than yours.

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Based on what you’ve paraphrased yourself as saying, it seems very harsh indeed for people to be labelling you in this manner. I think probably the worst thing you could be accused of would be not understanding this person’s feelings. Please, I don’t mean that as a criticism of you, what I mean is, how could you possibly know he felt, as you have never felt these type of feelings yourself.

Its not always possible, but I like to keep my philosophy as simple as possible. Keeping to this, its my opinion that as long as this person isn’t hurting anyone, let them do as they please. If it a case of “if I don’t have this surgery I can never be happy”, then to have the operation, to me, seems like a simple, everyone-is-happy conclusion.

EVH