you are the best one to answer that question. Since you instinctively have this desirable objective, why is or was it your desired goal?
Yes they are possible.
Why do you write “utopian projections” as though it were an absolute impossibility? Do you know something that we do not? Obviously, absolutely everything human beings have created was once considered an absolutely impossible projection, but here we are with every one of those impossible projections coming to exist.
Why provide a misquote, and then quote it correctly?
What does “War is the father or mother of everything” even mean?
I await your reply and clarification before proceeding
Are you here trying to suggest that it is an absolute impossibility for adult human beings to stop creating bombs and to stop dropping them on human beings, including children and babies?
What do you even mean by ‘disharmony’?
Is anyone dreaming of an absolute state of order here?
If you want to claim “Yes”, then who is that one or they exactly?
So, this one is here now trying to claim that every human being should try to fight against their natural internal instinct, and not desire Peace and Harmony with Everyone.
You’ll have to ask him why those are prioritized in his schema. Why not Tumos, or in the Hindu schema, why the implicit judgment of the rajasic? But there was no way to get even to a clear understanding of his approach.
They were not prioritised. They are just the result after doing ‘the process’ of reading the writings.
Once more, the ‘clear understanding’ comes from within ‘the process’ of reading the writings.
And, once again, the only approach is reading the writings. To believe that there some ‘my approach’ or ‘his approach’ is to just believe something that does not even exist.
Objectivity unsoiled by personal, subjective, interests.
Because if it were atained existence would end.
War = conflict - interactivity, multiplicity.
Fortunetely, such imagined states, such idealized stated can only ever exist in the Platonic caves of the human skull…and nowhere else.
Plato had a terrible impact on western man.
We have yet to recover…not even Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, whom I admired, managed to overcome him, and his Platonic ideals…his metaphysical realms existing as groundless groundings.
He enabled the myriads of charlatans roaming the agora…like on this very forum.
Serving up their snakeoil linguistic slop, to desperate masses.
Instead of laughing at them we are forced to take them seriously, not because they have something profound to offer, but because of their impact on the masses…like Alister Crowley, and Strauss, and the Frankfurt School, and Popper, and Marx…
It means…existence is dynamic, interactive…and no absolute states are possible.
All remains incomplete…in a state of tension…conflict…WAR!
Completion is a product of organic brains, working on absolutist binaries+ 1/0
It means in conflict…attrition…
War is an extension of politics…if not physical force, then psychological force is always in play.
Masculine/Feminine forms of warfare…conflict.
You…when you, and your ilk speak of peace, you are alluding to a state of absolute harmony, order…
Herbivores exploit the work of plants; carnivores exploit the work of herbivores…all is in a constant state of conflict - ouroboros.
Not only life…all of existence.
Every second that you live, you’ve destroyed another life; every moment you exist as a living entity, you’ve conflicted with other entities over spacetime, over objectives, over resources, over attention, over reproductive access…What you enjoy as your own you’ve denied to another.
Love evolved to deal with fear…triggering fight/flight. It was naturally selected as a biochemical intoxication, so as to allow cooperative strategies to become effective.
Have you been “enlightened” by your uniforming idealism?
Manchild…peace = stagnation.
And yet…absolute harmony is an ideological fantasy…
Yin/Yang
It is disharmony, chaos, that makes existence possible…and life necessary.
Utopia is a moderns/postmodern (Homo Americanus) secularization of Biblical Paradise. A ideal state, projected into an imminent future that never arrives, and is always a day away.
When western men overcame the biblical nonsense, they did not overcome the concepts…they renamed them.
Are you telling us you were born not wanting to live in peace and harmony with everyone?
Or, are you telling us when you were a young child that you wanted to live with war and conflict with everyone else?
Now, of course, you are free to tell us what you desired at those ages, but if you desired to live in war and conflict with others and not live in peace and harmony with others, then are you absolutely sure?
I am yet to find an honest people tell me that they did not desire to live in peace and harmony with everyone when they were young.
What is this one word response in relation to exactly?
So, for a social animal, love is just an afterthought or a byproduct of fear, correct?
What are you basing your claims here on exactly?
Just maybe the ‘unforming of division and differences’ is the result of being ‘enlightened’ first.
But, I do not expect all people to yet be able to comprehend and understand this logical progression.
Also, let us not forget that absolutely everything human beings have dreamed up, planned, and constructed and created was once just a so-called ‘idealist view’.
Once more, I have never dreamed what this one is imagining.
Womanadult…war = annihilation.
So, why is this existing in you here only?
So, well to “satyr” anyway, Yin/Yang does not exist in harmony.
Which is quite funny since they have to co-exist in equilibrium, and harmoniously, for Existence to be possible, which is what makes life necessary.
Once more for the slow of learning and comprehending, absolutely everything “satyr” lives with was once existed only in an ‘ideal state’.
But, as anyone here can clearly see, every one of those things now exists. Their existence proves irrefutably that every person who believed that those ‘ideal states’ could never ever come to exist was absolutely Wrong. They were also just False beliefs, which some people absolutely believed were true.
I want to live in harmony with nature…which is a state of constant conflict.
You confuse what men desire with what is…your, my desires are not always attainable, especially when they contradict reality.
I desire, I want, to live forever…
When the ideal is confronted by the real, the ideal must adjust or be destroyed.
Stop using your desires, your insecurities, your ideals as universals.
Harmony is relative…as is peace.
There is no complete, final peace…there is always conflict, stress, tension…
Degrees, boy…War is an extreme form of human conflict. Kinetic, physical…
You are at war, as we speak, fighting off viruses, parasites, struggling to maintain yourself in the perpetual war, the flux.
When I was young and as naive as you?
Yes…I also wanted to find a soul mate and travel in outer-space…
Your slavish neediness.
Your salvation myths.
No…it is crucial to its survival…but it is not magical, nor mystical…It is necessary. A bonding mechanism…a method of overriding anxiety.
Existence…observed ALL social organisms… understanding how bonding works and why it is essential to cooperative survival and reproductive strategies.
A progression of your anxieties…finding clever ways to self-deceive.
All is in flux…divergence is what drives natural selection, not sameness…Uniformity is the ideal of a romantic idealist, like yourself…afraid to stand apart and alone. Afraid of being excluded.
All human technological innovations occurred in warfare…competition drives innovations. Conflicts accelerate them.
What?
Ha…you mean the symbol is round, right. Complete, whole…
What it represents is disharmony…creating cosmic cycles.
There’s a flaw in order, chaos, as there is a flaw in chaos, order.
A disharmony. In your mind it feels complete, whole.,…makes you feel aware, certain, your thinking is completed in the image of a circle.
Europeans…and the cultures they created representing their relationships with existence.
Faustian
You’ve been infected by an Afro-Asiatic worldview…Tikkun Olam. You want to “heal” the world…correct it…Humanize it.
Salve ethics. Her psychology.
What characterizes herbivorous herds? a fear of the unknown. A desire to be included in a vast collective, within which they can disappear, and find…safety…belonging…appreciation…peace.
Is every human being or everyone not ‘nature’ to you?
If you want to live in harmony with nature, then you want to live in harmony with everyone. The fact there is not a single thing that is above, beyond, or apart from, nature, means you are referring to everyone when you say you want to live in harmony with nature.
Also, if you say you want to live in harmony with nature, this means that you are now not, and of harmony with nature is, according to you, a state of constant conflict, then this means that you are not now living in a state of constant conflict.
So, if you are not now living in a state of constant conflict, then what are you living with exactly?
But, I do not confuse ‘this’ at all. What you have just done is shown what you are confused about.
Now, what do “men” desire, and, what is, exactly?
Is anyone here meant to know what this sentence means or is referring to?
Also, what is ‘reality’ to you, exactly?
Why do you write in ‘the way’ you do here?
What is ‘your sentence’ even in relation to? Why do you desire and want to live forever for anyway?
What ‘ideal’ are you talking about, exactly? I just proved proof of how absolutely every thing human beings have created and thus became ‘reality’ was once perceived as ‘ideal’. Did you really miss or misunderstand this?
you claiming that ‘the ideal’ must adjust or be destroyed when they are confronted with what you call ‘the real’ implies that you know what ‘the real’ is, forevermore, exactly. So, ‘we’ await your elaboration, explanation, and/or clarification.
Show us what ‘the real’ is exactly.
Once more, we have another one who, when questioned and challenged over its claims, which it could not back up and support, resorts to attempts of deflection and deception.
No one ever said nor suggest there was. So, why introduce something no one besides you was even thinking about?
What you are doing is just introducing more to ‘try to’ deflect and deceive.
To who exactly?
And, war is a completely unnecessary form of human conflict. But, because you believe absolutely otherwise, you will seek out and cause and create unnecessary conflict. As you hae already shown and proved.
you do this because, as you are a human being, you will not do what goes against your strictest of beliefs. ‘you’ are not able to control “yourself” when it is beliefs controlling ‘you’.
If this is what you want to believe is absolutely true, then you will keep causing and creating absolutely unnecessary conflict. Again, you are not able to control ‘you’, when you have beliefs like you do.
What an absolutely idiotic statement and claim, and made worse by putting a question mark at the end of it.
So, what this one is now ‘trying to’ laughably claim is that when it was younger, it really and truly did want and desire to live in constant conflict and wars with everyone else.
“satyr” is one of those young children who love when parents are constantly fighting and warring with each other. “satyr” wanted and desired more bombs being dropped around, burning and killing family and friends. Oh, that’s right, one could not have anyone classed as ‘family’ or ‘friends’ because it desired conflict and wars with others.
What do ‘you’ believe ‘my’ neediness is for, exactly?
Is it possible that you are imagining and assuming things here that do not exist?
Or, are you one of those people who actually believe that their own thinking and beliefs could never ever be wrong?
After all, you are certainly coming across as one of those types of people.
But, to you, human beings ‘have to’ live in war, conflict, or against one another. To you, human beings can have to be under stress and tension, so they can never ever be in peace nor in harmony with one another.
you claim here that ‘it’ is crucial for human survival, which means human beings must absolutely always be living with ‘it’ and in relation to one another. Which is why you believe you can never ever live in peace and harmony with absolutely anyone.
So, now “satyr” claims that ‘it’ is necessary and is a bonding mechanism.. and the very thing that causes and creates stress, tension, conflict, and wars, is also a supposed ‘method of overriding anxiety’.
Which makes some people now wonder what the ‘it’ word was even in relation to exactly.
So, how exactly does ‘bonding’ work when you also say and claim that every thing ‘must be’ in constant conflict and war with everything else?
How do ‘you’, for example, ‘bond’ with someone who is firing missiles at you?
Also, LOL you talk about “how bonding works” and “why bonding is essential to cooperative survival and reproductive strategies” while also at the very same time claiming that everyone MUST be in constant stress, tension, and conflict with everyone else.
LOL What supposed “anxieties”? Just because you HAVE TO live with stress, tension, anxiety, and in constant conflicts, warring, and fighting never ever means that ‘I’ have any “anxiety” here, let alone many of them.
By the way, was that a prime example of ‘projection’?
Anyway, talk about a great example of ‘self-deceiving’ of “oneself” by ‘trying to’ claim that ‘bonding’ with others is necessary while also at the exact same time ‘trying to’ claim that one ‘must always’ be in constant conflict with others.
Of course. Why are you stating the obvious for here?
Is there anything other than ‘natural selection’? For example, is there some kind of ‘unnatural selection’ somewhere in Life and Existence?
LOL Says ‘the one’ who just got through claiming that ‘bonding’ is essential.
What a truly romanticist ideal view. Oh ‘we must all bond together, it is for our survival’.
And, as for ‘standing apart and alone’, ‘you’ literally would have died and been completely non-existent ages ago. LOL you just said you ‘need’ to ‘bond’ for your survival. Which is obviously a sign of just how very afraid you are of being excluded.
The funniest thing here is that ‘I’ am going out on ‘My own’ here saying and claiming some of the things ‘I’ am. Whereas, ‘you’ are just copying and following what ‘the masses’ around you say and claim. Even when I have shown you cannot back up and support ‘your claims’ here, you will still follow what others tell you.
LOL Talk about presenting another prime example of ‘confirmation bias’ in its highest form.
you would like one of those who just copies quotes while never ever stopping to think about them and to consider ‘the truth’ of them.
Imagine believing that absolutely every technological innovation occurred in human warfare. How closed off a person would one have to be? Then imagine that it is an irrefutable fact that it is 'competition, and absolutely nothing else, that drives innovations. As for ‘conflicts accelerate innovations’, then this is a prime example of how and when human beings will ‘try’ absolutely anything to ‘try to’ “justify” their obviously Wrong misbehavior.
LOL Lets all cause ‘more conflicts’ because doing so will accelerate innovation.
Talk about a completely delusional species.
“satyr” would be one of those who also copies and expresses quotes like, for example, “Necessity is the mother of invention,” as though that is laughably true and real as well.
Again, it would have never have stopped to ‘think about’ that expression. “satyr” would just repeat it as though there is nothing wrong it.
you said that “absolute harmony is an ideological fantasy”. And, as anyone can see from my response below, I was pointing out that you are the ONLY one who had the view about “absolute harmony”.
Absolutely no one else was thinking, seeing, or talking about “absolute harmony”, so you are the only one here with ‘this view’. So, why is ‘this view’ existing in you here only?
Again, you introduced something that no one else was thinking nor talking about. Some would say you introduced a “red-herring” here.
LOL Is this what you believe, I mean?
So, now “satyr” claims that it knows, without absolutely any doubt at all, that the human being who came up with the ‘idea’ of ‘yin/yang’ and designed ‘the symbol’ was, irrefutably, representing ‘disharmony’, and not ‘harmony’ at all.
But, to you, there is certainly no ‘strength’ at all, right?
I am not sure what you are trying to convey here. Anyway, there is no such thing as “your mind”.
Unless, of course, you are another who absolutely believes there is. If you are one of them, then surely you will be able to explain to the readers here what the words, “your mind”, means and exactly what they refer to, right?
But, the so-called “europeans” were created from “others”, who were certainly not just “men” only.
People like “satyr” and those of its ilk really did have a very closed and narrowed way of looking at and seeing things here.
Why only when so-called “western men” or “europeans” overcame what you call the “biblical nonsense”, did what you claimed here happen? After all, it was only “men” who wrote, and kept rewriting “that one book”.
Why do you introduce these silly, incomplete sentences or words here?
If you say and believe so, then okay?
Just out of curiosity, what have you been infected by?
Would I be wrong here in thinking that you believe you have not been ‘infected by’ anything, and that you believe that you have been ‘influenced by’ only pure logic, irrefutable reasoning, and absolute truth?
Well, you could not have this more wrong.
Again, these are completely out of nowhere one-liners.
you are another one who jumps to conclusions, which you then believe to be absolutely true, that were made up from your own already existing presumptions only, and then you continue on with “your own story”.
Who cares?
Are 'you herbivorous?
What has animals who feed on plants, and you believing that they have a fear of something you call “the unknown” got to do with absolutely anything else here?
By the way, do you consider animals that feed on plants even know what the words “the unknown” even refer to?
Are 'we human beings meant to know what ‘this’ is meant to mean?
Or did you write this for herbivorous animals only?
No, I do not…someone may be a nihilist and anti-nature…someone else might be delusional, like you…another might be ambitious and desire to exploit me.
On a primal level…survival…procreation being an extension of survival.
Others place ideals about survival…but ideals conflict…so they come in conflict with other ideals.
Survival of the fittest…in genes and memes.
I love the “exactly” insertion…very Absolutist…
Nothing is exact, naive man-child.
Wha tis existence?
A state of dynamic interactivity… Patterned and non-pattered energies interacting, conflicting, unifying, destroying, creating…FLUX.
Because I cannot be bothered with individuals like you…
I wrote for others.
Man-child…you asked me what I desired in my youth…when ?I was as naive and idealistic as you are…Now you question my youthful desires?
What about your peace delusions? Why would you want peace anyway? Have you thought through the costs…or do you only focus on the benefits?
Give me an example?
Man-chikld…human antineutrinos on natural order have consequences…pollution, for one…Material and genetic, manifesting all sort of psychosomatic consequences.
The degree to which humans ideals contradict the real, determines the severity of the negative consequences.
Projections…HA!!
Ummm…everyone?
HA!!
There will always be conflict, man-child…you are in at war as we speak…you are battling, struggling…but you are unaware, because your energies suffice.
This is your naivete in display.
War is an extension of politics…politics is conflict. I think violence is what you fear. Physical force…you don’t mind physiological force, do ya?
How would you deal with conflicts in your utopian world?
Talk it out?
Agree to disagree?
Hugs and kisses?
You are losing it, boy.
I love the use of “absolutely”…like trying to corner me with projection.
Bombs?
Is this the only kind of conflict you understand or is it the one you fear?
You are clueless, aren’t ya?
Resorting to extremes…what about nukes…am I advocating for nuclear war, man-child?
It’s ironic that you turn a blind eye to a holocaust happening in Palestine…at this moment.
I do not like it…but is it natural? Yes.
Salvation…from nature…and its indifference, its uncertainties its injustices, its brutality.
You want to “correct nature”…heal it, in accordance with your imaginary world.
Plenty of conflict in nature…if you stop it what happens?
Does every beast live happily ever after, or do they die off?
I don’t like it…it is how it is. Nature.
Natural selection is violent…and brutal…
There’s the “absolute” again.
You want to project upon me the ideas you think you can defeat with your emotional appeals.
Never said "conflict with absolutely EVERYONE, did I?
I actually described cooperative strategies and how they necessitate inebriation…biochemical numbing to attain bonding and enable self-sacrifices.
This is part of nature.
No…not “now” and not absolutely…most probably, and always. This is what I’ve always believed, because nobody has come along to disprove me.
You are doing poorly…and this will end, soon…because you are wasting my time with your naive idealism.
Imprinting…have you seen chicks and duckling emerging form their shells?
They imprint upon the first living thing they see.
Another is the evolution of biochemicals, hormones, expanding the sense of self to include others…primarily ones offspring.
This is essential for cooperative strategies to emerge and remain stable.
Shared genes and memes are foundational, but this expansion of identity can include other species.
\See how dogs associate their owners as part of their pack.
Food is the mechanism. Pavlovian…
Food builds trust…the other associates its sharing with a parent. In humans this association can be abstract…for instance identity of a nation state…an ethnicity…the state…an ideology…god.
God is the ultimate abstraction of a father figure.
As a herd psychology…you fear being excluded…
In herds this is a death sentence.
You enjoy uniformity…losing yourself in multiplicities
No need…no progress…man-child.
Comfort atrophies…
Herds protected from predation, kept in barns, become ill…the herd dies when weakness is not culled.
Ha!!
How will you achieve peace, man-child, if it is not absolute?
In what region of existence will your utopia exist, protected from the world at large?
If you set up a commune of peacenik hippies…how long before they are discovered by fascist brutes? In what universe do you live?
HA!!
Therefore…conflict, war, is always part of existence.
You must fight to preserve your peace, man-child.
There’s the ‘absolute’ again…
I deal in probabilities, man-child…i do not believe in absolutes, including god, or absolute peace…harmony.
Strength is a measure of weakness…
Strength is relative, not absolute…like ALL value judgements.
Oh jeez…one of them liberals… American right?
Men as in human…But mostly males create culture…females nurture and propagate it.
Honesty…Always gets me in trouble.
And I am done with you. I addressed the public, through you…and you have nothing more to offer but the usual liberal, Homo Amecanus, romantic idealism…
Um, what? How does the brain use binaries? Firing of neurons? Ah I see, firing or not firing, on or off. Does it work that way? Is the signal 0 or 1? And what of when something doesn’t adhere to either pole? There is more between poles than than the sum of the poles.
Brain uses multipliers and dividers to deal with the fact that there are no absolutes in existence…dealing with existential flux.
Fractions of absolute one.
Existence is more than poles, yes.
Binaries is how organic brains conceptualize - reducing fluidity into static abstractions. There is no one, and therefore no nil. Mathematics is a language…representational.
Existence remains eternally incomprehensible. Those who offer you complete models is lying to you.
There is no completion in fluidity…all is process.
