Well, that’s a pretty cynical attitude about the powers of persuasion and reason, isn’t it? I myself was once a fairly devout christian, but underwent a process of reasoning involving voices from outside my belief system. If voices from outside one’s belief system are silenced, that’s when one’s mind ceases to change. We can’t simply “get on with the real problems” as if they’re gonna magically be addressed, if the grounds of our reason are radically distinct. Consider, for instance, the stem cell research debate…
When someone justifies murdering others [and does so] because she believes she is the embodiment of God’s will, the problem is God.
And since for many there is a fundamental relationship between what they believe and what they do, giving a shit about that belief [in God] could not possibly be more relevant. Especially if a loved one is one of the folks who was murdered.
And, no, not everyone wants to stop her. Those who share her belief in God wish only that she had succeeded in killing even more.
God is what they believe in. And because they do they rationalize murdering others who do not.
God is the shit here as far as I am concerned. But that’s just my belief in no God manifesting itself existentially though dasein.
An atheist can say anything about a god by speaking.
How can a druid say anything about Buddhism?
How can a Christian say anything about Thor?
How can an 84 year old pragmatist say anything about Santa Claus?
How can J.R.R. Tolkien say anything about C.S. Lewis’ character’s in Narnia?
How could C.S. Lewis say anything about Medieval Cosmology?
How can any anthropologist say anything about Ra?
How could Einstein say anything about quantum physics?
How can you say anything about an atheist?
Simple. By will of discourse.
very good stumps.
Furthermore Turtle, an atheist can learn more about atheism from including commentary from a theist, and a theist can learn more about theism from including commentary from an atheist, than either can learn from excluding the other.
Just as simply as everyone here can learn more about themselves by the commentary of other people upon them.
Agreed.
Let’s understand the sociohistorical and psychological-philosophical roles that the god-concept has played and still plays – beyond this, thinking about or arguing whether this god-concept indicates the real existence of some actual being corresponding to our ideas of it is just total nonsense and a silly childish waste of time.
There is no god. Yes yes I know, you want to talk about this some more, and its fun to bash other people’s beliefs and assert our own superiority… but let’s just move on already.
Let the children worry about their imaginary friends, we have more important things to do (I would hope).
TheStumps: Religion Forum Rule Violation.
What if the atheist says, “I don’t believe there is a God, but I’m not certain”.
if the person is not certain then talk about it.
it is very difficult to get an atheist to define god.
Call it the supernatural source of the universe that deals with how the universe came to be created by some such supernatural entity. If they don’t accept that, they are merely copping out/dodging the question. The burden of proof is on whoever proposes or opposes such a proposition. The agnostic can only judge the likelihood of such possibilities. Anyone who claims to be reasonable must be an agnostic in the absence of proof.
And a nice blend of Guatamalen, Costa Rican and French Roast coffee
is also served on premises.
By the time the cake and coffee are finished, no one will care anymore. 
Viva La Tiramisu!!!
When they come down off that caffeine, calorie, sugar & chocolate high they will. 
The problem STILL would not be god. The problem is the interpretation of our beliefs and our NOT examining them because we would like to have an excuse, a tool to use in order to feel free to exercise our stupidity. God is only a tool.
God is not what they believe in. What they believe is that ultimately their reality which is simply delusion is the only reality. It has nothing to do with god but everything to do with unexamined beliefs.
Like much fertilizer. The weeds within the mind MUST ALWAYS be pulled out and/or separated from the flowers in order to create a thriving garden beautiful that is Real.
No one acts out of pure madness, evil or insane people act out of their rationalization of a subject; therefore if they happen to be spiritual they will find their excuse in their form of spirituality.
The best way to grow and learn is precisely to listen what people who differ in opinion say otherwise you’re only either repeating something you read somewhere or making it up. Testing my christianity against arguments from educated atheists, along with reading up on science is what helped me grow personally.
Try to keep conversation civil please, this is the reason we come to discuss (or just read as i have been doing until now) on this forum rather than arguing this on the streets.