How can we trust our leaders?

I am referring to Bush, Cheney, Congress and everyone else in this crazy America.

How can we really trust them. They have almost absolute power over anyone in this nation; and people everywhere know it. It is a fool, an ignorant person who trusts someone he can never even talk to in his lifetime. A person that anwers with lies and listens to himself only.

If you all continue to trust our “leaders” in confidence, without question, I can only say that I know for certian you will all be sorry one day.

Doesn’t the conecpt that someone who has the power to assasinate you at any given time (if your intelligence of the situations at hand in the world today become that of your leader), scare you? I mean these people can do whatever they feel like. How do you know what they are thinking inside themselves. How do you know they have your “best” interests in mind?

You can trust them if you choose to trust them.

They don’t have absolute power. Not even Monarchs had absolute power. And they got the job until they snuffed it.

Don’t be so paranoid, it solves absolutely nothing and you will regret it.


The answer is simple: You don’t trust anyone until they have earned that trust. We may have implicit trust in some forms of leadership, but I doubt that any politician could inspire the sort of trust you’ve implied.

We are constantly faced with, “choose your devil”. Vigilance is the price of freedom, and constant scrutiny of leadership (or the lack thereof) is the responsibilty of each of us.

That said, it isn’t lost on most people that the ideal of what is leadership has taken a severe beating in the last few years…

See you at the voting booth. :smiley:


Not quite. I doubt my vote even counts now. With the electoral college and all, how do you know what good your votes do? I’m sure the people who make up this college are certain to use their “own” judgement (based on how much money they are given by certain people) to submit how ever many votes they like. THEY have power. Their power is nearly absolute as well, this because, they have a key role in determining our leader.

Our leaders promise us one thing and usually don’t do all much of what they promised. They most often use lies and deceit to get in office so that they can rule the people without regard for what happens to the everyday citizen, like sending our own people to Iraq to solve a problem that could have been done on paper.

I doubt I will ever regret anything that involves a little thinking before you just “accept” everything. If people do not question what is going on in life, they will forever be stuck in the same cycle of problems happening over and over; specifically with our leaders.

It seems to me, in the eye of our rulers, we are nothing more than another resource, used to get the intended job done.

I guess some like being used…


It is possible, even likely that your vote doesn’t count. But it might. One thing is guaranteed, Votes not cast absolutely won’t count. I’ll take my chances. (and I live in a red state :astonished: )

Your rather pessemistic view of the political process, what alternative are you suggesting? I hear the complaint and agree with much of it, but where is your solution?


Scepticism - great. Vigilance - great. Pessimism and paranoia - waste of time.

Nah, they’ll make new mistakes simply because of boredom. Boredom is the strongest single force in history.

Perhaps, but not me. I never said don’t question, don’t suspect, don’t pry and imagine. Just don’t let it grind you down, and down go around claiming you’ve got the truth and anyone who disagrees is a sheep who likes being used.

first, i want to say that nothing really gets counted in democracy. even if one says his/her opinions, its majority rule. if one person gets what he or she wants, all the other people would be sad and distressed. so i agree on the fact that the congress, bush, cheney, etc. has, not absolute, but great power.
right now, i do not think people trust Bush, cheney, etc. these days. also, i do not want to go more into specifics. you guys should really go to to talk about this issues.

I’ve been contemplating this for a long time… sadly I don’t really have an answer :imp:

Sure you can trust a leader when you know they can’t do anything. An example would be president Clinton, who was a Democrat, because during his presidency he couldn’t do anything because the Senate was Republican so nothing passed and therefore you could trust him to do nothing. Unlike President Bush, who is Republican, and has a Republican Senate he can pass what ever he wants and they can pass whatever they want no questions asked. So therefore you cannot trust him.

And Xis10CList the reason that not everyones view is counted is because we are not a democracy, everyone gets a say in everything, we are a republic, an elected few decide whats good for everyone and vote. I know that not really techincal but I hope you get the gist of what I am saying.

Eh, you really shouldn’t trust anybody. I’m not talking about paranoia, but if you want to keep your status as an indvidual and not just somebody’s pawn, you really shouldn’t take anything people in power (whether it’s a CEO or a radical protester,) at face value.

It doesn’t matter all if you trust your leader… it matters if you trust your neighboor enough to resist when that said leader becomes corrupted.

If Bush makes an order and the whole gov’t doesn’t obey… what power does he really have?

We make the guns they use to enforce the law.

An astute comment.

They can only detain so many people, so many ‘suspects’, so many dissenters. They can only kill so many.

This occured to me while in London on February 15th, just before the Iraq war began. There were between 1 and 2 million people on the streets in protest (from a country of about 60 million) and if they’d decided to storm the House of Commons nothing could have stopped them (short of calling in the army, and that takes time, what with London traffic). It wouldn’t have achieved a damn thing but it would have looked good on TV.

Never trust the government. Ever. At any time. For any reason.

Trust your Mom,your wife, your brother,your friends…never trust an institution or the “leader” of the institution. You know the government by what it and the biased media tells you, and you know the leader through sound bites and press releases. Even the most honest leader must be constantly scrutinized…and it is the responsibility of the people to do so. Freedom requires maintenance.

Well, even you mom, wife, brother, etc. I mean, if you trust anyone too much, you could be lulled into accepting whatever they say. I mean, how do you think most racists end up like they are? By trusting what their parents told them.

We all begin by trusting those close to us, and yes, that trust may influence how we think - until we really begin thinking. At that point no one is trusted until they earn that trust.

Politicians are among the least trusted of any ‘leader’ role. And with good reason; they’ve earned it.


Well, there’s obviously differant kinds of trust. I mean, I would trust my friend enough to lend him a dollar, but I don’t trust him with my philosophy. Unfortunatly there are those who do totally entrust their way of thinking to other people. As Jung said, such people are basically children (please nobody get on me for bringing up Jung today, I already know some of you don’t like him, ok?) because they’re totally dependent on someone else, as a child is to his mother or father. Part of the process of maturing is to learn to trust yourself.

"Somewhere there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brothers: here there are states.

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears to me, for now I will speak to you about the death of peoples.

State is the name of the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this lie slips from its mouth: “I, the state, am the people.”

It is a lie! It was creators who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers are they who lay snares for the many, and call it state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there are still peoples, the state is not understood, and is hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give to you: every people speaks its own language of good and evil, which its neighbor does not understand. It has created its own language of laws and customs.

But the state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen.

Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.

Confusion of tongues of good and evil; this sign I give you as the sign of the state. This sign points to the will to death! it points to the preachers of death!

All too many are born: for the superfluous the state was created!

See how it entices them to it, the all-too-many! How it swallows and chews and rechews them!

“On earth there is nothing greater than I: I am the governing hand of God.”- thus roars the monster. And not only the long-eared and short-sighted fall upon their knees!

Ah! even in your ears, you great souls, it whispers its gloomy lies! Ah! it finds out the rich hearts which willingly squander themselves!

Yes, it finds you too, you conquerors of the old God! You became weary of conflict, and now your weariness serves the new idol!

It would set up heroes and honorable ones around it, the new idol! Gladly it basks in the sunshine of good consciences,- the cold monster!

It will give everything to you, if you worship it, the new idol: thus it buys the lustre of your virtue, and the glance of your proud eyes.

Through you it seeks to seduce the all-too-many! Yes, a hellish artifice has been created here, a death-horse jingling with the trappings of divine honors!

Yes, a dying for many has been created here, which glorifies itself as life: verily, a great service to all preachers of death!

The state, I call it, where all drink poison, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all- is called “life.”

Behold the superfluous! They steal the works of the creators and the treasures of the wise. Education, they call their theft- and everything becomes sickness and trouble to them!

Behold the superfluous! They are always sick; they vomit their bile and call it a newspaper. They devour each other and cannot even digest themselves.

Behold the superfluous! They acquire wealth and become the poorer for it. They seek power, and the lever of power, much money- these impotent ones!

See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus pull each other into the mud and the abyss.

They all strive for the throne: this is their madness- as if happiness sat on the throne! Often filth sits on the throne.- and often also the throne on filth.

Madmen they all seem to me, and clambering apes, and too eager. Foul smells their idol to me, the cold monster: foul they all smell to me, these idolaters.

My brothers, will you suffocate in the fumes of their maws and appetites! Better to break the windows and jump into the open air!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the idolatry of the superfluous!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the steam of these human sacrifices!

The earth is yet free for great souls. There are still many empty sites for the lonesome and the twosome, surrounded by the fragrance of tranquil seas.

A free life is yet possible for great souls. He who possesses little is that much less possessed: blessed be a little poverty!

There, where the state ends- there only begins the man who is not superfluous: there begins the song of the necessary, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ends- look there, my brothers! Do you not see it, the rainbow and the bridges of the Superman?

Thus spoke Zarathustra."