how does god explain the world wars

since people seem to know so much about what god thinks and says…let them explain what god thinks about the world wars…
were those wars necessary…

I hear so much about the loving god…people seem to know this…but why don’t we know more about god and wars…why were they necessary…

It would be the epitome of arrogance to claim to know what God thinks. One of the best quotes Iheard about war, and I forget who said it, is thatwar is the failure of diplomacy. It’s human, all too human. It says more about us than it could say about any god.

I agree ier…but how do we know that god is love…

But if we’re the product of the process of design by some god, can we not also infer something about that god depending on our behavior?

So peacemakers are not part of the same design?

If god was a competent and a benevolent designer there would be no need for peacemakers.

So much for imaginary worlds. We live in the real world wherein we behave goodly, badly or stupidly. If God designed us not to be peacemakers, given the world as it is, we would not have free will. Fortunately, we are not puppets of a benevolent diety, but are responsible for what we do or say. We can will evil. We can will good.

And how are we not puppets? Did god not fine tune all the natural laws and design our organisms, including our brain and DNA? We are as much of a god’s puppet if we’re evil as we are if we are good, since we’re simply acting according to conditions that god has set up, so we’re programmed either way.

However, what do you think is better? Program all people to be good or program all people to be bad? Let’s say you are god. Would you design Hitler? Would you design Josef Fritzl? Do you think giving people the ability to do evil is a good thing? If you do, then how comes that almost every law system in the world disagrees with you and tries to prevent people from doing evil, even if it means intervening with their free will to do evil? What about being free FROM evil?

People and all living organisms, with a few exceptions, are “designed” to be learning decision makers. If they make no decisions on their own, they are not actually living. Life is making decisions and learning. When a thing is created that does not make decisions, it is not called “life”.

So your argument concerns non-living things only. When life is created, it cannot be dictatorially controlled, else it isn’t life. Thus the proposed God is doing exactly what any intelligent designer of life would do; give it the fundamental essentials of a living being, then allow it to make its decisions on its own = “free-will”.

And the world wars were a decision of specific people to try to become a god themselves and remove free-will (just as you are trying to contribute to right now).

I guess then that your definition of life differs from the usual, scientific one if it necessarily involves making decisions. Are animals and plants not alive then? Or would you not categorize their thought processes as decisions?

Nothing is life, according to that, because all is controlled. If there truly is a designer god, then we literally are his puppets and act according to the conditions he set up, from natural laws to our brains and DNA. Because, ultimately, we are completely determined, our choices are determined and limited by the designer deity.

What gives us the illusion of free will is the fact that even though we’re determined, it’s impossible for us to correctly predict the behavior of everything and everybody. That is more due to the fact that all the chemical processes and information in our brain and DNA are too many and are too complex for us to precisely analyze them to the point that we can exactly determine the behavior of every individual. Imagine if we succeed at that in future, though… However, even now we can still make conclusions about people based on the state of their brain, behavior etc.

Neither evolution nor brain composition can be said to describe hard determinism. There are too many variables. There is fortuitous seredipity. There are mutations and neuroplasticity. The Determinism vs free will arguments inevitably become moot.
Back to the topic at hand, literalists believe there was a war in heaven leading to the fall of Satan. If there was war in a place of perfection, that excuses war in our place of imperfection.

Ierrellus if there was war in heaven I’d rather say that it means that heaven is not a perfect place than that it’s an excuse for wars to exist on earth.

And as long as we give excuses for such horrible things instead of frowning upon them, humanity will never make progress.

It is true that the haven is not a perfect state but certainly far better than earth.
Perfectness is enlightenment and that goes beyond even haven.

with love,
sanjay

Turtle - why should God have to explain the world wars? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t owe you anything. And if he’s omnipotent, he obviously could; the fact that no one on a forum can is no real challenge to that claim.

3Sum - if only it had ever occurred to people to frown on war. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, they do, until they’re reminded that they’re religious and that they believe in god. That’s when the war isn’t bad anymore, it’s a part of a god’s benevolent plan… yep, millions of children murdered in a war is a part of a god’s plan. Such a good god.

I personally believe in a kind loving god…so I cannot accept that god is doing anything good or bad…god is not directly in the picture…

We are promised a future time in which weapons will be beaten into plows, and we “will study war no more”.

Well, religious wars are the exception rather than the rule. Most major wars have been carried out in the name of the nation state or the monarch, dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, for the past few centuries at least. These days, they’re carried out for “freedom” or “democracy”.

It basically boils down to this:

As one of the hosts in the show “Atheist Experience” said: ‘The difference between your god and me is that if I can stop somebody from raping, I will’ and ‘I think that you’re morally superior to your god, you just don’t know it yet’ (in a response to a Christian).