How Does The Memory Work ?

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
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I do hope this issue hasn’t been argued on this forum, if it was, I appologize.
As you know, I am new, so I have an excuse :slight_smile:

Well, the “memory” has always fascinated me (along with other things) :slight_smile:
I want your opinion about a certain event we call “to forget”.

When we “forget”… does the information actually disappear in time… for example, is it lowered in priority, until it disappears completely… or is it just set in such a low priority as we don’t “notice” it in our heads and thing we forgot it… And do you think each info is set with a certain priority (such as phone numbers, birthdays, homework etc.), random priority or each with the same priority ? And did you notice how we remember it seconds later when we don’t need the info ? Also, how does “involuntary memory” appear ? I mean a guy talks to me about how his b-day was and the only thing that pops up in my head for no reason is a beautiful Ferrari Testarosa…

I currently didn’t make up my mind so I would like to know how you guys and girls stand on this issue :slight_smile:

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I think that this would be more appropriate in the Psychology forum…

Are you talking about crystaline or fluid memory?

3

I don’t mean it in a psychological way. I am rather interested in your opinions as I am sure nobody can really tell how memory works :slight_smile:

I mostly need opinions :slight_smile:

Hmm… maybe in both cases…

4

I think the past doens’t exist. We only live in the moment. Life is like a man on a boat. And our thoughts are like the motor. Many of us like being at the rear of the boat looking at all the waves we have made. And many others like being at the tip of the boat. While I think we should live as if we were just riding the boat.

The issue of memory is a good one, and it does belong in this forum. I think it might be dependent on where you stand metaphysically. What if you believed that we were in the Matrix. Then you could argue that all your memories could have been loaded into you. I have had dreams in which I recalled fake memories in the dream. For all I know I might go to sleep tonight and my entire life is over. I wake up tommorrow as you, with your memories, and really believing I am you. Get my point.
I’m at work right now so I’m just trying to add a few cents in the bucket. I’m going to have to sit down on this one, it’s pretty interesting.

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I agree with O_R that this is a perfect thread for the newly developing Psychology forum. Just to let everyone know, the Psychology forum is for anything and everything that has to do with the Philosophy of Mind, Neurophysiology, and any other topics related directly to the field of Psychology (i.e. - Cognitive, Behavioral, Psychodynamic, etc.).

Primarily crystalline, it seems. The first question concerning the concept of “forgetting” deals specifically with crystalline, and it seems to me your theory, nomad, seems somewhat reasonable.

Somehow information is imprinted in our brain, although it is not known exactly how yet. Personally, I think that that every bit of information that enters our brain never leaves, although it is easily assessed that stored information does grow weaker over time. In a book I am currently reading, it discusses some theories concerning memory:

The brilliant Hungarian-born physicist and mathmatician John von Neumann once calculated that over the course of the average human lifetime, the brain stores something on the order of 2.8 x 10[size=59]20[/size] (280,000,000,000,000,000,000) bits of information. This is a staggering amount of information, and brain researchers have long struggled to come up with a mechanism that explains such a vast capability. - Michael Talbot, The Holographic Universe

hmmm. . . this sounds like classical conditioning maybe? You’ve heard of Pavlov and the dog experiment? Well, I’ll explain it briefly even if you have. Back in the early 1900’s, Ivan Pavlov, a biologist of some sort, was doing an experiment concerning dog’s and salivation. The experiment first noted that when the dog was presented with food, the immediate reaction was to salivate. So, he then began to ring a bell every time he gave the dog food. Eventually Pavlov tried ringing the bell without the food, and in response, the dog began to salivate, despite the lack of food. The concept became known as classical conditioning. The dog had been conditioned to salivate on command of the bell.

In your case, growing up you may have been conditioned to associate birthdays with the question, “what do you want for your birthday?”. In turn every time the word birthday is mentioned, you will think of that question and the answer you replied with, Ferrari Testarossa. Just a guess, but it seems reasonable. :slight_smile:

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Thanks :slight_smile:

Well I am proud to say I know of Pavlov and his experiment…
I read a book some time ago about “Body & Psychic Programming”.

I agree, it does seem like that. But what about other situations ? Although a Ferrari as a present would be “cool”, what about when you tell me of your mountain adventures etc. and I stil lthink of a Ferrari ? Let’s say I never went to the mountainside and never wanted to either… and won’t want to… so a “programming” may not be a solution in this case… IMO anyway :slight_smile:

I tend to think more of subconscious thinking. Maybe a way to explain how such a high value of info can be stored would be that both conscious and subconscious think either idnependently or at the same time on the same or different matters. For example while my conscious is admiring you for your mountain escapades, my subconscious is still thinking of that red Ferrari I always wanted…

Anyway… the book I read also had some sections about how the concept of undertanding occurs… For example. kids… we know we all start to read\write\count at a young age so it would be easier for us.

This experiment was done on a large number of kids of different ages. As I remember the docotors placed a number of sticks on the table.
Let’s say like this:

| | | | | | | | | | | | |

While we know the first line has 8 sticks (if I counted correctly - sorry - 1:15 am here :stuck_out_tongue:) and 5 or so on the next. The kids counted correctly (some of them anyway :stuck_out_tongue:) and commented how there are more sticks on the first line…

Then the doctors did a funny thing. They messed around with the distance…

| | | | | | | | | | | | |

And while the kids STILL counted correctly they said there are now more sticks o nthe second line… why ? becasue they seem “bigger\larger”. The experiment tried to proe that while some of them could count, they did not know the concept of “value” or “number”.

So I was curious how the brain didn’t argue with this, on the basis of memory saying “Hey, you know 5 comes before 8… 8 comes after 5… so obvioulsy you know the first line is bigger everytime”.

That experiment amazes me everytime I remember it :slight_smile:

Anyway… there are theories on how if you hit a certain size of infos you tend to forget soem so you make place for new ones. Not sure if this is true. … What strikes me as even weirder is the subconscious.

While you witness a robbery and the cop asks “What did you see ?” you answer “uhhh… the guy was tall…”

But if you are hypnotized… “The guy was tall, had green eyes, was about 30 yo, had a tatoo with a rose on his arm and liked Pepsi”.

Funny thing - the subconscious rememebers everything in detail… so I am curious why the conscious doesn’t.
On a sidenote, I am curious how the kdis didn’t know the concept of a “number” or its “value” too.

Any opinions on this ?

Maybe later on I’ll form a aconclusion or two as well :wink:
For now I only am a bit confused. :slight_smile:

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i think that its cause your concious doesnt need to know the information. sure if your attention had been drawn to the pepsi in his hand, you would have been able to recall it easier. but if while you were sitting there being concious of everything around you would be absolutly insane. i dont think our conciousness (or at least mine, i dont know what its like in your head) could handle thinking about that much stuff at once. but of course all your senses are gonna pick up on it. it is neato that it just all slaps it together in memory tho.

are there any yet any real nice solid theorys on how the brain actually stores memory? cause i would LOVE to read on something like that. and i dont mean how the brain associates information in the mind, i mean how the brain takes sensory perception and somehow translates that information into some sort of “brain structure” that can later be accessed, and when it does, how?

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I don’t think any memory ever goes away completely, it can’t because it’s energy! It must go to the Higher mind or memory database much like we have computer databases today and we can log into it or retrieve it as we see necessary. That’s the reason we are given to making or inventing computers because it’s inherent in our genes to do so, to copy or re-produce just like we do in art. Don’t they say, “Art imitates life?” So, there must be a CENTRAL DATABASE where all universal memory exists. I think that’s why the saying that, ‘We only use a tenth of our mind.’ (Meaning that we have capacity for more, or how would we, if couldn’t log into this vast database?)

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Hello All,
“Memory”. Memory is something which is comman in both (Mind and Brain)
Brain is something which is made of neurons and subject of study for neurologists.
Mind, we never know where it exist but we all know that it exist and it has power beyond our imagination.
The person whose neurons are in firm bond and helps him pretty much is brilliant.
The person who take help from mind most, and know simple things(love,harmony,gravitational force…) in life is intelligent.

Mind and Brain always operate together. you can not access your brain without the permission of mind. Brain can go to sleep, but minds never. Brain dies but mind is always there and active all the time. (mind is something which makes us dream) Mind remembers everything, but brain remembers only what amuse us (Like ferrari or scenes of any movie) .

We can improve our memory definately by following some techniques recomended by neurologists… But to some extent only. This limit will be their as long as they (mind and brain, or concious and sub-concious mind) are staying apart…

Why mind does not forget anything? Interesting !! Because it does not remember, it lives the moment and it get printed. There is nothing for mind like amusing or boring. It has no likes and dislikes. It just lives every moment.

To Improve the memory in indefinitely way people take the help of meditation and “Yoga”
But I think there are simpler ways also, just live every moment to its fullest, enjoy in whatever you do and don’t do the things which don’t bring joy to you.
(This is my first post and i registered today only.Please excuse me if I went in wrong direction while discussing the topic).

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Sutikshna ji,
The mind does not, “live every moment.” The mind is not even aware, it just processes information. It’s the heart that rejoices, craves, sorrows, experiences. Essesntially, the mind never lies, it can’t and so if I decide to lie then it’s my heart that lies because it’s the one that decides. It’s true that the mind keeps the memory and track of every happening, but the heart chooses to make every decision. That’s the reason addictions are so hard to get over. If it was the mind’s domain, the mind would rationalize itself out of it, but it can’t because the heart can be irrational! Remember, “The heart has reasons which reason does not understand?” Therefore it is NOT the mind that is addicted as the professionals seem to think but the heart that is so! I just wanted to say that it’s the heart that decides and experiences whereas the mind just keeps the memory and processes information likewise. The question in this query was regarding how memory works and I believe this is the way it essentially works - we have to keep thinking or we can lose touch with it, that’s why we think in the day all the time and cannot stop, and that is also the reason why we dream because dreaming is just thinking as we dream in the form of images similar to thinking in the day in the form of images, but we don’t remember most of this dreaming. Also even though memory can seem to be distant and vague or not seem to be there, but it’s always there I think, we just don’t have access to a lot of it, like the early infant times. I’ll stop right here or I can just go on and on and on.

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Hello beena ji,
I completely ignored the heart in discussion as i think that heart has nothing to do with the memory.
I wrote that “Mind lives every moment” because it shows its presence in every moment, it views every moment and stores it.

Agree!!

Sorry!! Instead think that mind remain alive even after death of our body. This is something which carries information between 2 births.

I read your messages and found it very useful to understand 2 things :-

  1. Data Storage (Memory).
  2. Information Processing.
    For first task only mind is responsible. It stores everything.(As you said in your first quote)
    Now its responsiblity of our brain that how much it can take from mind or how much it can interact with mind when needed. For this mind can take the help of heart. We enjoy/love/celebrate/hate something when we put our brain/heart into something.

Mind is also responsible for second task, but this is the case where heart does not allow mind to perform its job :wink:

Ya!! While processing information and taking decision one can control its mind(does not allow his heart to disturb mind) (like vivekanand…)
OR
completely go on with the flow of heart…(like devdas)

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How about:

Every possible configuration of atoms already exists. A separate universe for every arrangement. Two universes could be different simply due to a grain of sand being in a different place.

(stick with me!)
ok…

I think the memory (of the brain) is like the history or favourites bar in my internet browser.

Each one of these universes is like a different web “page”

As I surf (live), my list of places visited grows.

The actual neural pathways that develops in my brain are simply POINTERS that points towards the relevant web pages. A kind of map.

My brain doesn’t store memories, it stores addresses.

When I think about that time on my 11th Birthday I am actually going there again! My consciousness is kind of “remote viewing” that universe/web page again. My conscious splits itself into the two universes. So, while “lost” in thought, thinking about a certain memory, I (my consciousness) am neither totally “here” not “there” but am existing for a while in both.

If my memory became totally encompassing then I would literally BE there again. (Maybe I could even time travel this way.)

So… what is imagination? Well… if I can visit universes that I have stored in my “favourites” list in my brain (i.e., remember memories) then I can also visit other universes that may not be listed. I could tune myself into the universe where I am winning the lottery. I could live there in my imagination. Depending on how real and vivid I could make it, would be how real it was to me.

The ability to travel into these other universes, albeit only for a few moments and probably not very vividly = the source of what we call creativity.

Well, there’s some thoughts hey!
Works for me :wink:

DALE

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Sutiskshna ji,
Valla! Valla! How can you suggest to me in the above top line of yours, that I am suggesting that memory does not live on when I even gave proof that since it is energy that it has to live on? Very funny! Anyways…

What do you say! That Vivekanand had a strong control over his mind? My dear I wonder what control of mind is that that does not incorporate the heart in it. And if the heart is in there then you can never have a strong control on your mind. Similar is the case for Devdas, he couldn’t have had a strong control over his heart if the mind wasn’t incorporated in there. The reason is because thinking and feeling go together. The heart and mind cannot BUT work together in equal measure, all the rest is just plain dreaming or futile hope! I can even prove this to you. Since “Information Processing” cannot happen without feeling because it’s the feeling that commands or asks for info to be processed, therefore no one can be “strong” of heart or strong of mind. Whatever…