How H. G. Wells, A. Huxley, G. Orwell Saw the Social Future.

:laughing:

I think it always the former, for the reasons you’ve stated, for seeking methods and means.

After a high speed replay of the (IQ^2) debate (much to the annoyance of my wife & co.) my analysis is the following –

The unreduced strategies mentioned concerning The Brave New World were -

  • Identity political structure
  • Psychological conditioning thru obfuscation
  • Distractive consumerism
  • Sexual mandates
  • Elimination of the family unite
  • Genetic engineering
  • Love only for the state
  • Morality in a bottle
  • Subtle extermination of the uncontrolled – “pests”
  • Mood altering drugs

And concerning Nineteen Eight-Four

  • Subtle speech control
  • Hypocrisy
  • Artificial antagonists
  • Power lust
  • Thought crime
  • Rewriting of history
  • No need to think
  • Authoritarian discourse
  • Authoritarian logic
  • Power of hatred – divisiveness
  • Subjective reality
  • Psychological conditioning thru suffering
  • Power thru suffering
  • Hatred, fear, triumph, self abasement - only

I think for decades the Brave New World scenario was in play – techniques to subtly and gently enslave the population without them realizing they were enslaved. Huxley didn’t get into the more fascist methods.

But then what no one expected – Mr Trump became US President.

Mr Trump was/is sort of a crude Jesus figure – standing up for the masses, tearing the curtain on the establishment, turning over the money changing tables… The Jewish coalition had to be thinking – “OH HELL – here we go AGAIN!”

So they sent the Devil after him (the Muller team) who found nothing to convict. And now they are headed for the Pontious Pilat trial. Mr Trump intends to remain silent. And after which they are already planning the crucifixion.

Throughout Rome the Christians were then persecuted – the current effort to ban all conservatives from society – even jail them merely for being associated with Mr Trump or conservative ideas.

And I think that is when the Huxley narrative switched to the Orwell narrative – fascist enforcement of “unity” to the state.

Orwell saw society not merely being tricked into compliance (mostly through language manipulation and mind control techniques) but also by authoritarian intimidation and forced submission (fascism) – not caring that the population now know they are enslaved.

A question is why did Orwell think that force would be necessary?

Actually James answered why it would be necessary but I suspect Orwell was probably just going by Nazi experience.

The Brave New World tactics would require absolute but hidden control over media and the economy (James’ “Media, Money, and Medicine”). And realistically that is always partially exposed – never truly absolutely hidden. That implies a potential for “tearing the curtain” – which is exactly what happened.

So we can see from Rome-Judaea history that eventually tyrannical fascism is a historical reality and with history repeating itself and at a weak state – what else could really be expected? – Authoritarian control over speech, enhanced surveillance, persecution of dissidents, banning of any means for the population to resist, and open abandonment of civil rights – no more US Constitution silliness.

The Brave New World narrative was just a little too weak to last. The Orwellian narrative was an inevitable backstop.

Huxley was a dreamer of a utopia through obfuscation – no need for the ugly extortion. Orwell was more realistic – some subterfuge but reinforced by fascism until all resistance was simply forgotten – relegated to the “black hole of forgetfulness” – the Abyss.

And of course following history – Welcome to the fall of Rome and The New Dark Age.

It has all been done before.

Huxley dreamt of French socialism.
Orwell remembered Nazi socialism
- the inevitable consequent

I wonder if either thought about the Christians and the Fall of Rome. :-k

Oh - please forgive me Mr Wellhuxwell - I forgot to welcome you to the water board (stick around and you will not really be drowning in muck and issues - you just feel like you are - an interesting experience. :smiley: )

Thank you very much.


@ ALL.

We should deal with the fact that many “social” (a magic word) and other phenomena and events belong together.

Examples: the deregulation and thus the increase of power of high finance to an unprecedented extent; the wars, whether local, regional, global or universal; the fear mongering (e.g. of catastrophes, allegedly e.g. by climate or/and epidemics (last: “Covid-19”)); the non-governmental organizations; the support of selected states (last the Chinese, whose rise became possible also by it); the key positions in the most important states; the westernal technology threatening the nature of the living beings (especially e.g. nano-, gene-, robot technology, AI); the eugenics for 0.0001%, the dysgenics for 99.9999% of the people; the racism (e.g. which has been waged against the white race for decades now); mass migration (immigration into the Occident: abolition of the Occident); the extermination of the middle class, the civil society (since it exclusively concerns the Occidentals: extermination of Occidentals); the abolition of Occidental national states (in favor of privatization); Occidental nihilism (annihilation of Occidental values) and deconstructionism in general; Occidental fashion as a substitute for origin, genealogy, tradition, history, past, family, children (since exclusively concerning Occidentals: extermination of the Occidentals); feminism (since exclusively concerning the Occidentals: extermination of the Occidentals); genderism, although the gender affiliation is clearly recognizable by the organs; plutocracy disguised as democracy resp. kleptocracy; the mafiotic corporatism practiced above and the downward dictated ecologism and communism; the deliberate confusion of truth and lie; the probably not coincidental similarity of many conditions with those described e.g. by Wells, Huxley, Orwell. The implementation of the strategy points means a giant profit, that is a giant increase of power for a dwarfed group of people.

[size=85](Oswald Spengler, Years of Decision - Germany and the World Historical Development, 1933, pp. 164-165 - the official translation of the title is: The Hour of Decision).[/size]

[size=85](Oswald Spengler, Years of Decision - Germany and the World Historical Development, 1933, pp. 164 - the official translation of the book title is: The Hour of Decision).[/size]

And also Caesar had to prefer foreign soldiers (e.g. from Germany and Gaul), because they were more combative, braver, more reliable, more alive than the overprotected and too much spoiled ancient Roman cowards.

The time of the majority of Western people is over (for the second time, if we consider the ancient time as well). This majority has become overprotected and too much spoiled cowards.

Absolutely this

This is why these cowards need to threaten violence here on this philosophy forum, because they have nothing left in terms of conviction, argument, debate, and rationality.

Will the “cowards” get another chance to do better? Or are they all fateful victims, hopeless cases?

To actually get into the real I think they have to get into the feel - they have to personally face an enemy on their own - and get used to winning. Having others do all of your fighting for you just encourages the cowardice. That is why you want experienced fighters making the decisions - not just experienced users.

Or they will die out.

Orwell studied totalitarianism, especially communism, also in terms of forgetting. He did not yet know the technical possibilities that exist today, but he was already betting that people’s memory would be taken away by communism, which he himself experienced at times (he was temporarily a communist himself).

As for the criticism of modern technology, let us recall Heidegger:

“Only a God can save us.” - Martin Heidegger.

“The humans will only be used in the way they are needed.” - Martin Heidegger.

So, if they will not be needed at all anymore, then … (see above).

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alasBxZsb40[/youtube]
Aldous Huxley Interviewed by Mike Wallace - 1958

Amazing predictive of exactly what is happening today - and why he believed it.

Most all were reacting to the body politic described by Marx and and Nietzche. In fact the whole structural construct that befell the ambigous emergence of the trouble that Mattered the duplex ambiguity of dialectical materialism - befelled hundreds of millions, in that de-facto difference with idealized absolute space.

Therefore the digital rhetoric , formerly dual interpretation needed real teeth to chew the opposing

And maybe, this is indeed what the gods consider near twilight.

Steven King’s shining takes the father to some relationship to basic level of induced hubris for the sake of pressureacting long forgotten ideals.with the son, 'for his own sake?

.is it retarded to do philosophy as it should, rather then keeping up with the newest trends marked as 'discoveries? That’s another iffy tossup.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz6FGnVlBjM[/youtube]
[list]Aldous Huxley as Narrator[/list:u]
[list]The Globalist’s New World Order[/list:u]

Not sure if you are a globalist?

Here’s how to tell:

Are you a member of the Coalition of Truth?

No?

Then you are a globalist.

Not only that, but you are being observed. Think KGB.

Also, another clue revolves around how you react to this:

“Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it”

It’s said only those who are ranking members of COT grasp the significance of this. And, curiously enough, not just philosophically.

You are misinformed. High finance has only become more regulated with time, this trend has been steady and continuous. It is this regulation which assures it stays in the hands of those who already have the hundreds of millions of dollars required to comply with the regulations, and the friendships with other high power individuals required to make those hundreds of millions go the distance.

Regulation is what powerful people use to fence out potential competitors.

Regulation is also now magically what people that don’t know anything about finance demand more and more, in fact are convinced is the only obvious thing to do.

What better way to monopolize power than to ban competition?

You should do some serious study of the financial world, and the history of legislation concerning regulation, before you espouse an opinion like this.

And, if the information you do believe you have happens to coincide with any headline ever, be suspicious of your own self, and do serious research.

Take care that your opinions on finance are based on rigorous study, and not on a vague feeling that things are “out of control.”

That feeling is the only one that people who have the most basic skill in propaganda and proper funding to broadcast it in volume require to get you to go along with anything they desire, regardless of how you feel about them personally.

K: I would add to this, if you are not a COT, then you are by definition, a communist…
a traitor to America, a Liberal… which in conservative speak is the same thing
as being a traitor… a terrorist… to be a Member of the COT… is to be an American,
but that there is a funny thing, Observe isn’t actually an American…
just as UR isn’t actually an American and as Pedreeo seems to be a member of the
COT, I am guessing he isn’t American either… Someone mentioned Venezuela…
so, once again, not native Americans declaring actual American’s as being…

“traitors” “Liberals” “Terrorist” a “Communist”

I wonder how that works?

as everyone seems to have me on Ignore, I may never know… :flags-usa:
as an actual American, you know…

Kropotkin

so according to the COT…non natives people can tell actual Americans
what they are, you know, as Americans… So I guess we can
have blind people tell us about the painting “Guernica”, what it looks like
and the form the painting takes compared to an earlier painting of Picasso… say,
Les Demoiselles d’Avignon…

or have an stupid person explain the two theories of Relativity to us…
using the math as well…

I wonder how that is going to work? you know, as an Actual American…
having non American’s telling me how to be an American…

Kropotkin

@ Pedro I Rengel.

Thank you for your self-description. It shows very clearly that and how much you are brainwashed.

High finance cannot be reprimanded by anyone (except itself) because it has ensured by legal means that no one but itself can prohibit it from doing anything. For example, hedge funds used to be banned, but today the most influential banks are hedge funds themselves. The gigantic bubbles of high finance have no future anymore. They are threatening to burst. Some of them already burst not long ago. So high finance has long since found other ways to expand its power.