How old is the earth? Is the Bible's timeline correct?

[Mutcer]

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old. Yet scientists/archaeologists have uncovered fossils that have been determined to be some 140 million years old. This raises some questions:

1. If the earth is only 6,000 years, did God create the earth with dinosaur fossils or did God create the earth and later plant the dinosaur fossils?

2. What was God’s reason for including fossils which if discovered would create some suspicion as to the legitimacy of a 6,000 year old earth?

3. Does God want us to not believe the timeline of the Bible?

4. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally with respect to the timeline?

[George_Hammond]

@Mutcer

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old. Yet scientists/archaeologists have uncovered fossils that have been determined to be some 140 million years old. This raises some questions:

1. If the earth is only 6,000 years, did God create the earth with dinosaur fossils or did God create the earth and later plant the dinosaur fossils?
2. What was God’s reason for including fossils which if discovered would create some suspicion as to the legitimacy of a 6,000 year old earth?
3. Does God want us to not believe the timeline of the Bible?
4. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally with respect to the timeline?

[Hammond]
I hate to see an innocent and sincere person suffer for lack of knowlege at the hands of the more sophisticated.

Therefore, I will let you in on a secret. The “Biblical Creation” refers to the Creation of “Human reality”,
NOT the Creation of “physical reality”.

But, naturally since “physical reality” exists WITHIN “human reality”, the Theologicans say that
the Creation of “Human reality” takes precidence over the creation of “physical reality”, while
scientists say just the opposite. Of course they are both right WITHIN their specific definitions
of “reality”.

Anyway, our species, modern Man, is only about 100, thousand years old. This means the so called
Biblical Creation actually occured when our species (Homo Sapiens sapiens) came into existence
100,000 years ago. But In fact, large numbers of modern humans didn’t appear until about 30,000 years ago.
THUS the theologian can say the world is only about “6,000 years old” and the are basically CORRECT. (Even though
the Bible is a few thousand years off since it was written before modern paleontology).

This means that “Human reality” came into existence 6,000 years ago (or 10,000 years ago) and
modern Man opened his eyes and saw 4-legged animals, flying birds, and yes… even million
year old FOSSILS already sitting there in the ground.

The point is, that before the advent of Man, there was no one here to see them, so they
technically DIDN’T EXIST… since the “existence” of anything is strictly defined as something
that MAN can observe… and if there weren’t any men… therefore NOTHING “EXISTED”".

Now this is simply a “word to the wise” and I have no interest in arguing with you about it.
Just put it under your hat, and someday when you really get serious, you’ll realize
what I’ve just told you is the SCIENTIFIC TRUTH about the “big Creation controversy”.

GEORGE HAMMOND’S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror sites
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proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3

[Anthem]

The bible was written by ignorant people trying to explain their existence. Pay it no more mind than any of the other creation stories.

[Jayson]

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old.

That is incorrect.
Based on the Bible and Historical texts (which is how this count of time is made), the lineage of recorded and note-worthy man reaches back to 6,000 years.

That’s all that can be verified.

Using Septuagint lineage:
Adam had Seth at 230
Seth had Enos at 205
Enos had Cainan at 190
Cainan had Mahalaleel at 170
Mahalaleel had Jared at 165
Jared had Enoch at 162
Enoch had Methuselah at 165
Methuselah had Lamech at 167
Lamech had Noah at 188
Noah had Shem at 500
…and it keeps going…

But let’s do some basic math at this point.
This is 2,142 years.

Out of 6,000 years, that’s 3,858 years ago that Noah had Shem.
It is currently 2009.

Well, that means we should be at around 1850 BC, give or take even a thousand years for error and because the idea of the 6,000 year creation has been around longer than this year.
So that means somewhere between 1900 to 1700BC Noah had Shem, and then a flood happened across the world a bit later.

Well…in China, between somewhere in the ball park of 2200BC to 1600BC (give or take depending which of the three records one chooses to read), we have the Xia Dynasty.
Now…the Xia Dynasty has this interesting report.
It’s called a flood.
The Yellow river floods, but it should be noted that only the yellow river floods…not all of China or the world.

Now, their reaction is that they spend years (over decades) working out how to control the floods of the Yellow River.
They finally did accomplish building a dam system that gave them the control over the river.

Now…here’s the problem.
The great flood of the Entire world of Noah happens at the same time that the Chinese report previously being alive and afterward being alive; with the only account of water being that the Yellow River was flooding too much to produce food well.

So either we accept the Bible literally and believe the Chinese have the wildest imagination in history, writing accounts of events down in detail that simply never happened for no other reason than to defy a Bible they never saw, or we accept that a literal reading of the Bible is simply not valid.

[George_Hammond]

@Anthem

The bible was written by ignorant people trying to explain their existence. Pay it no more mind than any of the other creation stories.

[Hammond]
Don’t be a fool. The Bible was written by kings, aristocrats and intellectuals, the same people who write such material today.

The Biblical Creation clearly refers to the ADVENT OF HUMAN REALITY which anthropology
assures us happened 200,000 years ago when HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS (our species) first appeared on Earth!

Therefore, SCIENTIFICALLY, the Biblical Creation occurred 200k years ago.

The Bible writers didn’t know how old Man actually was because there was no such as Anthropology or Paleontology in ancient times,
so they guessed at "6,000 years)… which is not actually that far off since large numbers of HSs didn’t appear until about 10,000
years ago.

At any rate, to claim that “reality” is 15 BILLION years old (the Big Bang) and that is the Bibical Creation is
SHEER IGNORANCE published by PHYSICISTS who haven’t a CLUE as to what God is.

And I’m a graduate physicist by the way, so coming from me that actually means something!

The Bible is scientifically true and correct about the CREATION. Don’t ever doubt it!

========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND’S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror sites
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proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3

[George_Hammond]

@TheStumps

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old.

That is incorrect.
Based on the Bible and Historical texts (which is how this count of time is made), the lineage of recorded and note-worthy man reaches back to 6,000 years.

That’s all that can be verified.

Using Septuagint lineage:
Adam had Seth at 230
Seth had Enos at 205
Enos had Cainan at 190
Cainan had Mahalaleel at 170
Mahalaleel had Jared at 165
Jared had Enoch at 162
Enoch had Methuselah at 165
Methuselah had Lamech at 167
Lamech had Noah at 188
Noah had Shem at 500
…and it keeps going…

But let’s do some basic math at this point.
This is 2,142 years.

Out of 6,000 years, that’s 3,858 years ago that Noah had Shem.
It is currently 2009.

[Hammond]
Archbishop Ussher, primate of Ireland in 1650, was the first to do this kind of math and he is world famous for coming
up with the legendary “6,000 years”.

However, the Biblical Creation clearly refers to the ADVENT OF HUMAN REALITY (“the” reality, the only reality that concerns us)
which anthropology assures us commenced 200,000 years ago when HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS (our species) first appeared on Earth!

Therefore, SCIENTIFICALLY, the Biblical Creation occurred 200k years ago.

The Bible writers didn’t know how old Man actually was because there was no such as Anthropology or Paleontology in ancient times,
so they guessed at "6,000 years… which is not actually that far off since large numbers of HSs didn’t appear until about 10,000
years ago.

@TheStumps

Now…here’s the problem.
The great flood of the Entire world of Noah happens at the same time that the Chinese report previously being alive and afterward being alive; with the only account of water being that the Yellow River was flooding too much to produce food well.

So either we accept the Bible literally and believe the Chinese have the wildest imagination … or we accept that a literal reading of the Bible is simply not valid.

[Hammond]
Na, Leonard Woolley discovered a 6’ layer of clay sediment buried 15 feet down under Basra, indicating an enormous flood of the Euphrates river
in Biblical times. The Yangtze river in China has had many similar floods, the same with the Nile or any other major river system. Obviously the
“great flood” was most likely simply one of these gigantic river floods… or even a Katrina style Hurricane tidal river surge. None of this
diproves the Bible in any way.

GEORGE HAMMOND’S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror sites
geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3

[Jayson]

Hammond; that was more or less my point, but I was wanting to make it with a simpler presentation by just showing the literal (which was the OP’s interest) reading as having some basic problems even without carbon dating or anthropology being involved.

[Mutcer]

@George Hammond

@Mutcer

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old. Yet scientists/archaeologists have uncovered fossils that have been determined to be some 140 million years old. This raises some questions:

1. If the earth is only 6,000 years, did God create the earth with dinosaur fossils or did God create the earth and later plant the dinosaur fossils?
2. What was God’s reason for including fossils which if discovered would create some suspicion as to the legitimacy of a 6,000 year old earth?
3. Does God want us to not believe the timeline of the Bible?
4. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally with respect to the timeline?

[Hammond]
I hate to see an innocent and sincere person suffer for lack of knowlege at the hands of the more sophisticated.

Therefore, I will let you in on a secret. The “Biblical Creation” refers to the Creation of “Human reality”,
NOT the Creation of “physical reality”.

Why is this not made clear in the Bible?

Why does the Bible simply say “in the beginning God created the earth and the heavens”? Is that worded so that the lay person is supposed to understand it means “human reality” and not “physical reality”?

But, naturally since “physical reality” exists WITHIN “human reality”, the Theologicans say that
the Creation of “Human reality” takes precidence over the creation of “physical reality”, while
scientists say just the opposite. Of course they are both right WITHIN their specific definitions
of “reality”.

Anyway, our species, modern Man, is only about 100, thousand years old. This means the so called
Biblical Creation actually occured when our species (Homo Sapiens sapiens) came into existence
100,000 years ago. But In fact, large numbers of modern humans didn’t appear until about 30,000 years ago.
THUS the theologian can say the world is only about “6,000 years old” and the are basically CORRECT. (Even though
the Bible is a few thousand years off since it was written before modern paleontology).

If they are correct that the world is only 6,000 years old, then in what world did Homo Sapiens exist 100,000 years ago? It seems that the term “world” is figurative language for “human reality”.

This means that “Human reality” came into existence 6,000 years ago (or 10,000 years ago) and
modern Man opened his eyes and saw 4-legged animals, flying birds, and yes… even million
year old FOSSILS already sitting there in the ground.

The point is, that before the advent of Man, there was no one here to see them, so they
technically DIDN’T EXIST… since the “existence” of anything is strictly defined as something
that MAN can observe… and if there weren’t any men… therefore NOTHING “EXISTED”".

How could something that exists but man doesn’t observe not exist? Please explain why the existence of something is dependent upon man’s observance of it? If man died out and the earth continued to exist, would the earth actually not exist?

[Anthem]

@George Hammond

The Bible is scientifically true and correct about the CREATION. Don’t ever doubt it!

I don’t argue with this guy, Mutcer, but just so you know he’s clueless and full of himself. The bible has nothing to do with science, and it’s not scientifically accurate past metaphorical relationships.

I guess to better answer your fourth question, “Is the Bible meant to be taken literally with respect to the timeline?,” the answer is no. How can you? Some people do, but they’re certainly not good scientists.

You already acknowledge that the earth and the universe at the very least appear much older than they are. That’s using the real scientific method; not what georgie boy practices, not what ‘christian scientists’ practice, but the honest-to-god (pun intended) scientific method. We have a remarkably complete picture of the billions of years the earth has been around considering how long we’ve been studying it.

However, you can’t prove that god didn’t make everything appear much older than they are while in actuality they are only 6000 or so years old.

What you cannot do, however, is believe both without some serious 1984 business.

If you’re a scientific zealot, the evidence trumps the literal bible. If you’re a religious zealot, the bible trumps science. If you’re a perspectivist of sorts, you can study both at the same time and productively gain wisdom from both, even if you only believe one or the other or parts of both. You can believe both in whole at the same time, but there’s some doublethink involved.

By the way, I’m much less forgiving of the bible from the time when I wrote this.

[Anthem]

@Mutcer

How could something that exists but man doesn’t observe not exist? Please explain why the existence of something is dependent upon man’s observance of it? If man died out and the earth continued to exist, would the earth actually not exist?

By the way, I think what george is trying to say here (without much understanding, as usual) is a Schroedinger’s Cat experiment of sorts. It’s arrogant of him to assume that man is the only one capable of observing reality, however, and there is some argument around the Schroedinger’s Cat experiment as to whether the cat itself is an observer and what that means. At any rate:

youtube.com/watch?v=7SjFJImg2Z8

Google around and youtube some quantum physics stuff.

[WhoHa1000]

@Mutcer

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old. Yet scientists/archaeologists have uncovered fossils that have been determined to be some 140 million years old. This raises some questions:

1. If the earth is only 6,000 years, did God create the earth with dinosaur fossils or did God create the earth and later plant the dinosaur fossils?

2. What was God’s reason for including fossils which if discovered would create some suspicion as to the legitimacy of a 6,000 year old earth?

3. Does God want us to not believe the timeline of the Bible?

4. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally with respect to the timeline?

Greetings,

1. It is doubtful the Earth is 6,000 years old, based on both modern scientific and biblical scholarship.Dinosaur fossils seem to have gotten there just as would be expected. From Dinosaurs.

2)^

3. The bible does not seem to offer a comprehensive biblical timeline, and to derive one from the lifespans presented is most likely going to get you in a little bit of trouble.

4)The modern scholarly consensus is that the dates of the bible are not to be taken literally.

@George Hammond

The point is, that before the advent of Man, there was no one here to see them, so they
technically DIDN’T EXIST… since the “existence” of anything is strictly defined as something
that MAN can observe… and if there weren’t any men… therefore NOTHING “EXISTED”".

Could you elaborate?

_Leavitt.

[Anthem]

^^ For god’s sake read the post above yours.

[Mutcer]

@George Hammond

The point is, that before the advent of Man, there was no one here to see them, so they
technically DIDN’T EXIST… since the “existence” of anything is strictly defined as something
that MAN can observe… and if there weren’t any men… therefore NOTHING “EXISTED”".

By that rationale, then you’d say God doesn’t exist, as man can’t observe God.

[Artist]

According to Genesis God didn’t create ‘day’ until the fourth day, so I assume days 1-3 could each have been any legth of time, including millions and billions of years if need be. So, Biblically, the world is as old or as young as you can prove it to be scientifically or any other way that seems reasonable.

[Uccisore]

@Mutcer

If one were to go by the timeline in the Bible, the earth is no more than ~6,000 years old.

You know, Christians didn’t actually think that until the Middle Ages. I think that pretty much kills your point.

[Xunzian]

I don’t know about that, you’ve got St. Hippolytus of Rome (~170-235CE) giving similar numbers as well as a lot of Fathers of the Church agreeing with that timeline around the time of Constantine.

[Uccisore]

@Xunzian

I don’t know about that, you’ve got St. Hippolytus of Rome (~170-235CE) giving similar numbers as well as a lot of Fathers of the Church agreeing with that timeline around the time of Constantine.

Really? I thought it was an Olaus Wormius thing. I stand corrected!  Makes sense though, it's just derived from arithmetic.

[Jayson]

Yeah, it was even an idea among Rabbi’s prior to the Roman Christianity, but it wasn’t very popular.
A few of the Rabbi’s would date using the holy lineage of their Kings and link it all the way back to Adam.
But the year counts weren’t exactly 6000…don’t recall anymore.

[Sidhe]

Anyway, our species, modern Man, is only about 100, thousand years old. This means the so called
Biblical Creation actually occured when our species (Homo Sapiens sapiens) came into existence
100,000 years ago. But In fact, large numbers of modern humans didn’t appear until about 30,000 years ago.
THUS the theologian can say the world is only about “6,000 years old” and the are basically CORRECT. (Even though
the Bible is a few thousand years off since it was written before modern paleontology).

This means that “Human reality” came into existence 6,000 years ago (or 10,000 years ago) and
modern Man opened his eyes and saw 4-legged animals, flying birds, and yes… even million
year old FOSSILS already sitting there in the ground.

We’re about 200,000 years old as a species. 30,000 years ago humans were still in the stone age rather than being modern. The bible is so far out as to make figurative analogies the only possible saviour for the ridiculous time line. I know he’s not around atm, but the assumptions here are criminal and the information is wrong.

since the “existence” of anything is strictly defined as something
that MAN can observe

For the second time this week I pronounce bag o’ shite. Strictly defined by who? Is it just strictly defined by you perhaps?

What is astonishing to me is that people actually buy into the idea that the world is 6,000 years old, but then I can’t believe anyone buys into the idea it is a couple million, hundred million or couple of billion years old. It’s hard to when your overwhelmed by the fact that the Earth is such a young planet compared to the age of the galaxy or the universe. So very small, so very insignificant and so very self absorbed is humanity. You can excuse the ancient Jews, but modern humans being persuaded of a young Earth is laughable and speaks of indoctrination and educational isolation in both Islam and fundamentalist Christianity.

[Jayson]

But carbon dating is wrong.