How would You know god

I realize that this has nothing to do with this: Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Still, I rather felt that it would feel more comfortable in the Sandbox. I didn’t want it in Religion and Spirituality either. It would feel somehow lost there. I didn’t want it in Creavity Writing. This is, to me, strictly, Sandbox talk.

I’m taking a slow walk in the park ~ around and around and around the circle. As I walk, I observe this person watching me with a casual smile but saying nothing. This person only smiles. There is just something so familiar and meaningful about that smile.

I am drawn to this person. I stop my walking around the circle and casually sit on the other side of the bench. I try to do this without being noticed but somehow I know that this is futile. This person looks at me and smiles warmly but says nothing. That space taken up is the epitome of stillness and calm. There is something so welcoming within that space ~ something which waits.

I look into those eyes and I really have no idea of what they are saying. They are just waiting ~ maybe waiting for me to speak. I am drawn into those eyes and suddenly all I want to do is to speak. But still, I remain ever so quiet. The person looks at me ~ takes me all in with those eyes ~ says nothing ~ just waits.

And then I begin to speak in a way I have never spoken to anyone before. I tell this person all of the things which no one knows about me ~ things which I hardly even knew myself. There are no hidden secrets, no pretence, no hypocrisy, no attempt at impressing, no attempt to hide my vulnerability, to hide the real me which has remained hidden for so long, unexcavated. This person listens to it all without saying a word ~ just looking deeply into my eyes. The eyes of this person are like a black hole and the space between us is like some beautiful event horizon pulling me out of myself. My deepest core is shattered and is revealed ~ vulnerable and at the same time ~ released and sent into a perfect freedom never experienced before. All the while, there is that perfect stillness and beyond a world that is sadly real, there is communication which dwells and transcends anything which i have ever known.

Such a quiet communication, such a rare intercourse.

I’m an agnostic but that is how I might know god.

That person is God Arc, and as God, he cannot stay on the same side circular park. The black hole of his eyes hide the all the different circularities in his/her mind, and the smallest the tiny electron as a planet would circle the sun god apollo be de ware, only one planet-electron per orbit.
You sitting opposite this black sun this insular singularity, and your eyes travel , underground through miles and miles of internet space.

well, just as we can not fathom the fact and take this very much as a miracle, that i can sit here type like on an old remington and very soon it will be in virtual space for You and others to read.

The guy is obviously a god. BUTHE DOESENT KNOW IT1Thats it, too busy shopping at Walmart then off to have an insignificant and unnoticeable coffee at the starbucks but oops they may be out of chocolate croissant.

how hard to know of this fear of playing take away,It was an old toy called pickup stick, chinese, if you pic it up and it moves another piece it drains it’s energy and some principle of I Ching changes things. and the man across the circular underground with hollow impenetrable eye
thinks
no i can’t come over because each tiny particle is condemned to stay in it’s own unique orbit.

things are different here underground than there. No two particles can stay within an respected distance, aesthetic course, because of the elementary push and pull,

as in vangogh-gaugin, and so in order to prevent hearing loss,
the proposal of nakedness of the revelation
of ALL, has to rise toward a somehat objective two way ,
or more, (the more the merrier)

so, a private dancer,
a strip tease would be necessitated, and remove one and i promise to reveal another, all values become appraised as of equal or similar worth.

how this works? Why not just let it all hang out? Why the tease?

It’s not a tease assuredly, and the discourse between Stuart and St. James can attest to that, in another forum. It is truly heartfelt, and real, albeit mystical to a great degree. It is highly compensative, and charges of overkill and hyper unrealisation can be brought up against it.

It is SUPERLATIVE, SURREAL in line with the manifesto from which crevel so disgustedly was thrown by andre breton.

my only source arc, is your man in eternal circular orbit to get next to you but hampered by the logical dynamics of electro magnetism.

The spirit rises, sadly from an etheric , gertrudstin black sun New York minute.
He will return circularly, or elliptically, and she will never abandon you.

That was quite powerful, I thought.

Whether one calls it “knowing God” or something else, I would certainly say that moments of that sort are at the core of the human experience, and that noticing shit like this in the first place is a step to having moments like that over and over - to perhaps live in that experience perpetually: “ask and ye shall receive” comes to mind.

Lately I’ve been living a recurring theme where “this is happiest I’ve ever been” and “I’m having the time of life, all the time, every day lately” is becoming something of a dominant experience. My lowest points, instead of depression or anger, are those of apathy, and a contented apathy at that.

God is everything and nothing; nothing matters and everything does. - This is the state of the world as I see it. Somewhere within that mess is our own personal battle between good and evil, where determining what “good” really means is the ultimate task.

One could argue one’s reason for living is to be and embody “the good.” Given everything you know and want, what does it mean to be good, anyway?

I am quite certain some would have it that “God = good” thereby “Go with God” would mean merely “Be Good”: to become and literally be an ongoing, perpetual force of Goodness. The closer you got to becoming this, the closer to God would you become.

… is how I understand it.

The Holy Grail was never a physical cup and any search for such could be attributed as a quest for self-identity, much like King Arthur’s. You seek to understand and therefore find understanding and you weave yourself into nature as you do so; as was once done by all.

But obe, doesn’t what I wrote say more about me than about a god?
You are so above my pay rate, obe. I’m not sure what you’re saying here for the most part. But you do k now that I love you. In a sense, you remind me of a facet of god, if there is one. God to me is so inscrutable, so incomprehensible - and that is how I sometimes see you and your writing.

I think I’m misunderstanding you here, obe. You do realize obe that this was based on my imagination. It isn’t something that actually happened. And I didn’t say guy - I said Person. How could god even be a guy, even let alone a person but it had to be some person sitting on the park bench if that person was supposed to relate to me - or to KNOW me. Well, it didn’t have to happen on a park bench either.

That “Person” in actuality reveals more about me as I said than about God. That person is also revealed in a particular psalm which I love, which is a revelation to me.

My man? What man, obe? This doesn’t at all come down to a man. It comes down more - how do I say it - more as an interface between my core self, my deepest self - and that inscrutable, incomprehensible Other, who may or may not know me, in a way, deeper and as far beyond the most distant edges of the universe lol in a sense.

I WILL respond to the other two posts soon. Thank you.

Arc,! Never for one moment did i question Your man to be ‘real’ in the sense of how we think two people can set opposite each other and not get closer, no, it doesn’t matter if it’s only in Your mind, not at all, don’t you see it’s the same man? As long as it’s in Your mind, You conjured him up, like You are conjuring me upon reading these lines, i am as unreal to you here on the internet, as if, i have never been born, or, if i was only a fictional character.

I am a fiction to my self, not real, anyway, and that thought should comfort You, at least, of not thinking in terms of de-realizing your own essay of me of my reality. I am beating you to the punch, de-realizing myself, before i ever get to You, or you ever find me.

 People in 'real' life de realize each other as a favor, so that they will not be burdened with the thought of hey, what's real and verifiable here, and what is not?  They never get to find out.


 You don't have to go far, You can leave with someone for Years, thinking You really know them and one day, one awful and terrifying day, wake up and see, that in all these passed years, You do not know them at all, at all, only the traces left by mutual projects such as sharing the children's upbringing, or that occasional glance across the breakfast table on Saturday mornings, when , there is a slight chance, that some authentic communication would be possible.

Wd go through life thinking our journey, with the objective we hold dear, the way we would like to see our life proceed, the way we know, the way it should be, the way our parents thought us the way it should all turn out.  as always, obe

… and then finds you on the Internet. :-$

Watch for channel God on your plasma TV, bovines probed by alien technology can’t be wrong. :wink:

:laughing: I think you’ve totally misunderstood the scenario.
I don’t believe in god, aliens or whatever oh or angels, devils/demons, witches, vampires, werewolves. Did I leave anything out? :laughing:
I was just imagining a particular 'aspect" of god that would be nice if I did believe. But even if i did, this entity would not be a personal one. This entity would be different than the one in the Garden of Eden who only spoke - this one would actually take the time to Listen.

So, James, what would you glean from my scenario that I was looking for?

I just wanted to say that I thought this was a lovely read.

Thank you. What to you made it powerful?

Sometimes it is about the “something else”. I think that an experience of God lives within the human psyche differently for everyone. This is why God is different to different people.

:laughing: Your use of the word encompasses many things I suppose, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

Could we have moments like that over and over? And would we really want to? I mean, if everyone I encountered in the park or anywhere was like this imaginary Person (God), and I were to experience the exact same qualia from my encounter with everyone, as I did with that imaginary Person, let’s say it was a true mystical experience, then wouldn’t that experience be commonplace and that Person wouldn’t be God? But what a world that would be - a real Utopia.
Wouldn’t wanting that moment over and over be kind of hedonistic? lol

You mean that you’re actually experiencing that? At some point though, wouldn’t the meaning of that fade? You have to come back down to Earth?

Define what You mean by apathy? You might just mean detachment here…relief. Detachment can be healthy - unless you’re speaking of not caring for anyone but your own happiness and contentment. But I’m not saying that this IS what you mean.

For those who DO believe in God, I wouldn’t think that for them God is nothing.
What do you mean by “nothing matters and everything does”?

How do YOU determine that. By what method?
Wouldn’t the “ultimate” task be living according to that determination? Living an ethical and moral life?

One could argue that one’s reason for living is to BE and to BECOME to continue BEING AND BECOMING.
What does it mean to be good? Maybe to strive toward perfection though knowing it will never be reached. To become more whole and to help and allow others toward that too. That’s just one definition.
Good is like beauty - in the eyes of the beholder.

God is inscrutable and such a mystery to me ~~As I said, I am agnostic and I refuse to live according to Pascal’s Wager.
That being the case, God being so inscrutable and such a mystery, how could we ever know what “good” would mean in the eyes of this Being, non-Being, what have you? …
Can you tell me how and why You think I identified the Person in my scenario as God from what I said.

idioticidium

I know that this was in response to Twilight. The Holy Grail is a perfect and beautiful metaphor for our seeking after God, trying to understand who and what God is or especially if there even is a God. Even not bringing God into the equation, the Holy Grail can be anything within our psyche which we sense as numinous, mysterious and meaningful that calls to us to know, to find. I have a feeling that the closer we seem to have come to it, the further from it we are.

In a book which I just finished reading, at the end of the book, that which was supposed to be the Holy Grail, or the cup which Jesus drank from, (one concept of the HG) caused an entire room to light up. The cup didn’t light up, it remained the same, but the room around it was bathed in golden light. But there was a twist to it. There was no golden light unless the person seeing it knew it for what it was, believed in it for what it was, the Holy Grail, the cup which had been pressed to Christ’s lips. That just came to mind.

Thank you Blurry.

Hi obe, :mrgreen:

But isn’t this the way many people view their “personal” relationship with God?

No, it’s really not the same thing. I know that you exist obe - you as a person are real, you have existence and I can know you in a sense by things you say and write to a certain extent that is…albeit that is flawed too. You are not a fictional character in the sense that God may be - God is - to all of us by nature of the mystery of God and our not being able to really know a thing about this God - not in actuality…well, not me anyway. You and i can have a form of relationship - that relationship is real up to a point but it is no figment of my imagination unless I simply want to be delusional. :laughing:
But a relationship with God by its very nature can only be “real” based on what we think and need/desire but ultimately it doesn’t make it real as a relationship between two human beings can be even though the relationship between two human beings can also be based solely or up to a point in the imagination.

But that having been said, I can realize that what I found, what I needed at my very core, or maybe i can say, the part of myself where I truly “live” that feels that kind of hunger, to be totally know and accepted which can never really totally be assuaged is also quite capable of being satisfied by another human being. …but only up to a point but I think up to a point that is made far more real than anything I can feel from a God. There are other human beings who would be able to satisfy the kind of need in us that was satisfied by this Being, this person, I conjured up in my imaginative story. I’ve actually been lucky enough to know two such human beings.

But i don’t think of you as fiction. I don’t think of myself as fiction unless I am trying to be deliberately “unreal”.
To be “unknown” to one’s self is not fictional. We are simply not finsihed with our archaelogical dig into self and that’s as exciting as our ‘dig’ into who God is or if God is.

My imaginary person in this thread was in a sense fictional but in another sense not so. Could I have conjured up this Person had I not know that I could experience this kind of qualia, this beauty of relation, of totally being known and understood? In the past, when I “believed” in a God, this was the essence of my relationship with God, my spirituality. (I can’t actually believe that I am revealing this in here). lol. This is what was at the root of me - of where i live…that of being totally known and understood and accepted - as a Being, not necessarily my behavior. That’s different. That apparently was what I needed at the time and it was something which I gave to myself through my belief, my hope, my imagination, my desire. I knew this to be real - at the time I didn’t realize how strongly knowing can be reinforced by belief albeit in a way which can blow your house down, which it did but I’m fine. lol

If you could go back and change that, would you?

And so it goes… :laughing:

Hi Arc,

Who knows, perhaps you saw a glimpse of a daimon.

Have you read Plato’s myth of Er?

god is right in front of us…it is the universe and life and everything that is and will be…it is everywhere…our ancestors who helped us survive…
you might even call it NATURE…

Hi Pandora :mrgreen: Where have you been?

I actually saw NOTHING, at least not visually. The “Person” in this narrative thread simply came from my creative imagination, such as it is at times. I was just writing a little story.

Aside from that, I could say that the story issued from a “daimon” within my mind.
Also, if we scramble the letters and end them with a “d” - we would have what I consider a daimon capable of being to us. A diamond at least in the rough.
I don’t believe in supernatural beings though it would be quite nice too. We ourselves are the angels and the devils and the daemons and the vampires included. lol

This little story has always given me goosebumps probably because it does hit so close to “home” and it so poignant!

[size=150]Jung’s Model of the Psyche[/size]
Irene Gad, MD

A Native American myth recounts that the Creator gathered all of creation and said, “I want to
hide something from humans until they are ready for it. It is the realization that they can
create their own life and their own reality.” The eagle said, “Give it to me; I’ll take it to the
moon and hide it there.” But the Creator said, “No, one day they will go there and will find it.”
Then the salmon said, “Give it to me; I’ll hide it in the bottom of the sea.” “No,” said the Creator,
“they’ll get there too.” Well, the buffalo came and said, “Give it to me; I’ll bury it in the plains.”
The Creator said, “No, they will get there. They will cut into the skin of the earth, and they will find
it even there.” But then Grand Mother mole came, the one that has no physical eyes to see on the
outside but has spiritual eyes and the capacity to see on the inside, and she said, “Put it inside them;
they’ll never find it there.” And the Creator said, “It is done.”

Taken from: jung.org/jungs%20model%20of%20th … e_gad.html

Taking a break from ILP, exploring the 3D+ world out there. :smiley:

I know, I was being metaphoric, as well. It’s just another way of perceiving things. :slight_smile: