Howl

HOWL

                For Carl Solomon 

                       I 

   I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by 
          madness, starving hysterical naked, 
   dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn 
          looking for an angry fix, 
   angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly 
          connection to the starry dynamo in the machin- 
          ery of night, 
   who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat 
          up smoking in the supernatural darkness of 
          cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities 
          contemplating jazz, 
   who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and 
          saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tene- 
          ment roofs illuminated, 
   who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes 
          hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy 
          among the scholars of war, 
   who were expelled from the academies for crazy & 
          publishing obscene odes on the windows of the 
          skull, 
   who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear, burn- 
          ing their money in wastebaskets and listening 
          to the Terror through the wall, 
   who got busted in their pubic beards returning through 
          Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York, 
   who ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in 
          Paradise Alley, death, or purgatoried their 
          torsos night after night 
   with dreams, with drugs, with waking nightmares, al- 
          cohol and cock and endless balls, 
   incomparable blind; streets of shuddering cloud and 
          lightning in the mind leaping toward poles of 
          Canada & Paterson, illuminating all the mo- 
          tionless world of Time between, 
   Peyote solidities of halls, backyard green tree cemetery 
          dawns, wine drunkenness over the rooftops, 
          storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon 
          blinking traffic light, sun and moon and tree 
          vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brook- 
          lyn, ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind, 
   who chained themselves to subways for the endless 
          ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine 
          until the noise of wheels and children brought 
          them down shuddering mouth-wracked and 
          battered bleak of brain all drained of brilliance 
          in the drear light of Zoo, 
   who sank all night in submarine light of Bickford's 
          floated out and sat through the stale beer after 
          noon in desolate Fugazzi's, listening to the crack 
          of doom on the hydrogen jukebox, 
   who talked continuously seventy hours from park to 
          pad to bar to Bellevue to museum to the Brook- 
          lyn Bridge, 
   lost battalion of platonic conversationalists jumping 
          down the stoops off fire escapes off windowsills 
          off Empire State out of the moon, 
   yacketayakking screaming vomiting whispering facts 
          and memories and anecdotes and eyeball kicks 
          and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars, 
   whole intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days 
          and nights with brilliant eyes, meat for the 
          Synagogue cast on the pavement, 
   who vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a 
          trail of ambiguous picture postcards of Atlantic 
          City Hall, 
   suffering Eastern sweats and Tangerian bone-grind- 
          ings and migraines of China under junk-with- 
          drawal in Newark's bleak furnished room, 
   who wandered around and around at midnight in the 
          railroad yard wondering where to go, and went, 
          leaving no broken hearts, 
   who lit cigarettes in boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing 
          through snow toward lonesome farms in grand- 
          father night, 
   who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross telep- 
          athy and bop kabbalah because the cosmos in- 
          stinctively vibrated at their feet in Kansas, 
   who loned it through the streets of Idaho seeking vis- 
          ionary indian angels who were visionary indian 
          angels, 
   who thought they were only mad when Baltimore 
          gleamed in supernatural ecstasy, 
   who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of Okla- 
          homa on the impulse of winter midnight street 
          light smalltown rain, 
   who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston 
          seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the 
          brilliant Spaniard to converse about America 
          and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship 
          to Africa, 
   who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving 
          behind nothing but the shadow of dungarees 
          and the lava and ash of poetry scattered in fire 
          place Chicago, 
   who reappeared on the West Coast investigating the 
          F.B.I. in beards and shorts with big pacifist 
          eyes sexy in their dark skin passing out incom- 
          prehensible leaflets, 
   who burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting 
          the narcotic tobacco haze of Capitalism, 
   who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in Union 
          Square weeping and undressing while the sirens 
          of Los Alamos wailed them down, and wailed 
          down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry also 
          wailed, 
   who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked 
          and trembling before the machinery of other 
          skeletons, 
   who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight 
          in policecars for committing no crime but their 
          own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication, 
   who howled on their knees in the subway and were 
          dragged off the roof waving genitals and manu- 
          scripts, 
   who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly 
          motorcyclists, and screamed with joy, 
   who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, 
          the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean 
          love, 
   who balled in the morning in the evenings in rose 
          gardens and the grass of public parks and 
          cemeteries scattering their semen freely to 
          whomever come who may, 
   who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up 
          with a sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath 
          when the blond & naked angel came to pierce 
          them with a sword, 
   who lost their loveboys to the three old shrews of fate 
          the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual dollar 
          the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb 
          and the one eyed shrew that does nothing but 
          sit on her ass and snip the intellectual golden 
          threads of the craftsman's loom, 
   who copulated ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of 
          beer a sweetheart a package of cigarettes a can- 
          dle and fell off the bed, and continued along 
          the floor and down the hall and ended fainting 
          on the wall with a vision of ultimate cunt and 
          come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness, 
   who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling 
          in the sunset, and were red eyed in the morning 
          but prepared to sweeten the snatch of the sun 
          rise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked 
          in the lake, 
   who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad 
          stolen night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these 
          poems, cocksman and Adonis of Denver-joy 
          to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls 
          in empty lots & diner backyards, moviehouses' 
          rickety rows, on mountaintops in caves or with 
          gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely pet- 
          ticoat upliftings & especially secret gas-station 
          solipsisms of johns, & hometown alleys too, 
   who faded out in vast sordid movies, were shifted in 
          dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and 
          picked themselves up out of basements hung 
          over with heartless Tokay and horrors of Third 
          Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemploy- 
          ment offices, 
   who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on 
          the snowbank docks waiting for a door in the 
          East River to open to a room full of steamheat 
          and opium, 
   who created great suicidal dramas on the apartment 
          cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime 
          blue floodlight of the moon & their heads shall 
          be crowned with laurel in oblivion, 
   who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested 
          the crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of 
          Bowery, 
   who wept at the romance of the streets with their 
          pushcarts full of onions and bad music, 
   who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the 
          bridge, and rose up to build harpsichords in 
          their lofts, 
   who coughed on the sixth floor of Harlem crowned 
          with flame under the tubercular sky surrounded 
          by orange crates of theology, 
   who scribbled all night rocking and rolling over lofty 
          incantations which in the yellow morning were 
          stanzas of gibberish, 
   who cooked rotten animals lung heart feet tail borsht 
          & tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable 
          kingdom, 
   who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for 
          an egg, 
   who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot 
          for Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks 
          fell on their heads every day for the next decade, 
   who cut their wrists three times successively unsuccess- 
          fully, gave up and were forced to open antique 
          stores where they thought they were growing 
          old and cried, 
   who were burned alive in their innocent flannel suits 
          on Madison Avenue amid blasts of leaden verse 
          & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments 
          of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the 
          fairies of advertising & the mustard gas of sinis- 
          ter intelligent editors, or were run down by the 
          drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality, 
   who jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually hap- 
          pened and walked away unknown and forgotten 
          into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup alley 
          ways & firetrucks, not even one free beer, 
   who sang out of their windows in despair, fell out of 
          the subway window, jumped in the filthy Pas- 
          saic, leaped on negroes, cried all over the street, 
          danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed 
          phonograph records of nostalgic European 
          1930s German jazz finished the whiskey and 
          threw up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans 
          in their ears and the blast of colossal steam 
          whistles, 
   who barreled down the highways of the past journeying 
          to each other's hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude 
          watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation, 
   who drove crosscountry seventytwo hours to find out 
          if I had a vision or you had a vision or he had 
          a vision to find out Eternity, 
   who journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who 
          came back to Denver & waited in vain, who 
          watched over Denver & brooded & loned in 
          Denver and finally went away to find out the 
          Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes, 
   who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying 
          for each other's salvation and light and breasts, 
          until the soul illuminated its hair for a second, 
   who crashed through their minds in jail waiting for 
          impossible criminals with golden heads and the 
          charm of reality in their hearts who sang sweet 
          blues to Alcatraz, 
   who retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky 
          Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys 
          or Southern Pacific to the black locomotive or 
          Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the 
          daisychain or grave, 
   who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hyp 
          notism & were left with their insanity & their 
          hands & a hung jury, 
   who threw potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism 
          and subsequently presented themselves on the 
          granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads 
          and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding in- 
          stantaneous lobotomy, 
   and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin 
          Metrazol electricity hydrotherapy psycho- 
          therapy occupational therapy pingpong & 
          amnesia, 
   who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic 
          pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia, 
   returning years later truly bald except for a wig of 
          blood, and tears and fingers, to the visible mad 
          man doom of the wards of the madtowns of the 
          East, 
   Pilgrim State's Rockland's and Greystone's foetid 
          halls, bickering with the echoes of the soul, rock- 
          ing and rolling in the midnight solitude-bench 
          dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a night- 
          mare, bodies turned to stone as heavy as the 
          moon, 
   with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book 
          flung out of the tenement window, and the last 
          door closed at 4. A.M. and the last telephone 
          slammed at the wall in reply and the last fur- 
          nished room emptied down to the last piece of 
          mental furniture, a yellow paper rose twisted 
          on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that 
          imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of 
          hallucination 
   ah, Carl, while you are not safe I am not safe, and 
          now you're really in the total animal soup of 
          time 
   and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed 
          with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use 
          of the ellipse the catalog the meter & the vibrat- 
          ing plane, 
   who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space 
          through images juxtaposed, and trapped the 
          archangel of the soul between 2 visual images 
          and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun 
          and dash of consciousness together jumping 
          with sensation of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna 
          Deus 
   to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human 
          prose and stand before you speechless and intel- 
          ligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet con- 
          fessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm 
          of thought in his naked and endless head, 
   the madman bum and angel beat in Time, unknown, 
          yet putting down here what might be left to say 
          in time come after death, 
   and rose reincarnate in the ghostly clothes of jazz in 
          the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the 
          suffering of America's naked mind for love into 
          an eli eli lamma lamma sabacthani saxophone 
          cry that shivered the cities down to the last radio 
   with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered 
          out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand 
          years. 

                       II 

   What sphinx of cement and aluminum bashed open 
          their skulls and ate up their brains and imagi- 
          nation? 
   Moloch! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unob 
          tainable dollars! Children screaming under the 
          stairways! Boys sobbing in armies! Old men 
          weeping in the parks! 
   Moloch! Moloch! Nightmare of Moloch! Moloch the 
          loveless! Mental Moloch! Moloch the heavy 
          judger of men! 
   Moloch the incomprehensible prison! Moloch the 
          crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of 
          sorrows! Moloch whose buildings are judgment! 
          Moloch the vast stone of war! Moloch the stun- 
          ned governments! 
   Moloch whose mind is pure machinery! Moloch whose 
          blood is running money! Moloch whose fingers 
          are ten armies! Moloch whose breast is a canni- 
          bal dynamo! Moloch whose ear is a smoking 
          tomb! 
   Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! 
          Moloch whose skyscrapers stand in the long 
          streets like endless Jehovahs! Moloch whose fac- 
          tories dream and croak in the fog! Moloch whose 
          smokestacks and antennae crown the cities! 
   Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch 
          whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch 
          whose poverty is the specter of genius! Moloch 
          whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen! 
          Moloch whose name is the Mind! 
   Moloch in whom I sit lonely! Moloch in whom I dream 
          Angels! Crazy in Moloch! Cocksucker in 
          Moloch! Lacklove and manless in Moloch! 
   Moloch who entered my soul early! Moloch in whom 
          I am a consciousness without a body! Moloch 
          who frightened me out of my natural ecstasy! 
          Moloch whom I abandon! Wake up in Moloch! 
          Light streaming out of the sky! 
   Moloch! Moloch! Robot apartments! invisible suburbs! 
          skeleton treasuries! blind capitals! demonic 
          industries! spectral nations! invincible mad 
          houses! granite cocks! monstrous bombs! 
   They broke their backs lifting Moloch to Heaven! Pave- 
          ments, trees, radios, tons! lifting the city to 
          Heaven which exists and is everywhere about 
          us! 
   Visions! omens! hallucinations! miracles! ecstasies! 
          gone down the American river! 
   Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole 
          boatload of sensitive bullshit! 
   Breakthroughs! over the river! flips and crucifixions! 
          gone down the flood! Highs! Epiphanies! De- 
          spairs! Ten years' animal screams and suicides! 
          Minds! New loves! Mad generation! down on 
          the rocks of Time! 
   Real holy laughter in the river! They saw it all! the 
          wild eyes! the holy yells! They bade farewell! 
          They jumped off the roof! to solitude! waving! 
          carrying flowers! Down to the river! into the 
          street! 

                       III

   Carl Solomon! I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you're madder than I am 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you must feel very strange 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you imitate the shade of my mother 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you've murdered your twelve secretaries 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you laugh at this invisible humor 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where we are great writers on the same dreadful 
          typewriter 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where your condition has become serious and 
          is reported on the radio 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where the faculties of the skull no longer admit 
          the worms of the senses 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you drink the tea of the breasts of the 
          spinsters of Utica 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you pun on the bodies of your nurses the 
          harpies of the Bronx 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you scream in a straightjacket that you're 
          losing the game of the actual pingpong of the 
          abyss 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you bang on the catatonic piano the soul 
          is innocent and immortal it should never die 
          ungodly in an armed madhouse 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where fifty more shocks will never return your 
          soul to its body again from its pilgrimage to a 
          cross in the void 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you accuse your doctors of insanity and 
          plot the Hebrew socialist revolution against the 
          fascist national Golgotha 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where you will split the heavens of Long Island 
          and resurrect your living human Jesus from the 
          superhuman tomb 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where there are twenty-five-thousand mad com- 
          rades all together singing the final stanzas of the Internationale 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where we hug and kiss the United States under 
          our bedsheets the United States that coughs all 
          night and won't let us sleep 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          where we wake up electrified out of the coma 
          by our own souls' airplanes roaring over the 
          roof they've come to drop angelic bombs the 
          hospital illuminates itself imaginary walls col- 
          lapse O skinny legions run outside O starry 
          spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is 
          here O victory forget your underwear we're 
          free 
   I'm with you in Rockland 
          in my dreams you walk dripping from a sea- 
          journey on the highway across America in tears 
          to the door of my cottage in the Western night

1955-1956

Alan Ginsberg

Sorry threetimes, I tried to sit still long enough to read the whole thing seriously but this stuff kills me. I’m one of those godawful punters down the local art gallery who come in out of the cold, stinking of cheap cigarettes, saying “I don’t know much about art but I knowz what I like”.

I’m presuming you aren’t Alan Ginsberg so hopefully I won’t tread on your toes too much when I say it’s too impenetrable, too dense and just doesn’t damn rhyme. It’s unrewarding, too long and even though some of the imagery is picturesque, a lot of it is just wtf…?

Why do you like it, presuming you do…?

Someone else’s incoherent trance-nostalgia, in dark light, a foreign tapestry of love and manic expression, truth and sex and freedom – and specifics – can be a slog. I agree with Tab’s notion. Too idiosyncratic to mean something to me…

But if it meant something to me, it wouldn’t evoke the mystery, the half-ideas, shards of subjects and the painted rivers of blood these shards lacerated free, and the mellow salty stink of the DNA in this blood…makes its way somehow into my subconscious, this the self-centered, self-satisfied beat-litany paints a portrait of a good twisted, vital, blessedly-blind and sadsexy time.

the operatic way we tend to reflect our life’s “eras” as they glow dimly in our memories. It was…wildness and youth and love and death and everything and nothing, it was the details.

Whether the details hit home or sound hopelessly wtf-ish to Tab and myself, we can still look up at the sky in a dream, hear the cacophony broken soundtrack like an old pair of jeans, and see our own flawed recollections glowing black at us, and we can gather together and howl at it, breathe life into it, universalize it…and tear it to pieces like wolves until nothing is left but indiscriminate chunks of flesh.

Heck if he was Ginsberg he’d be writing from the grave…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg

Ginsberg was the dude back in the day…pushed a few boundaries.

Ginsburg was just a Whitman wannabe.

Yeah. Well he could do worse. Everybody is going to be accused of being somebody’s wannabe at some point. That is not to say that wannabes have nothing to say…

Hey Threetimes, as an illustration to compliment what I was saying on chesscube:

The decrepit palace interior is one of Mobutu’s palaces, which he built for himself and his family back in the 90’s when he was ruler of Zaire. It’s the present day version. The insert is an interior of one of England’s stately homes built, ooh, ages ago. The question, why is one much better preserved than the other - considering they were both built along the same lines, for the same purposes…?

The answer is of course, in England, the infrastructure to support and cherish such an extravagant folly is present, however, in the middle of the jungle, in politically and economically turbulent Congo, it is not. This is what I meant when I said things like this poem are doomed, like that jungle palace, to rot in obscurity. It’s a pretty house of words, built unfortunately in a time when what we really need is bricks and mortar.

Well, yes, Tab, but it’s interesting from an historical perspective. Ginsburg helped define the existential angst that marked the 20th century, particularly the second half with all its attendent postmodern nihilistic crap. Given its context, it’s an interesting poem. But poems ought to be able to stand on their own and this is why Whitman, for example, will long outlive Ginsburg.

Now I remember why I don’t post poetry on ilp.

:laughing:

A SUPERMARKET IN CALIFORNIA
By Allen Ginsberg

What thoughts I have of you tonight, Walt Whitman, for I walked
down the sidestreets under the trees with a headache self-conscious looking
at the full moon.
In my hungry fatigue, and shopping for images, I went into the neon
fruit supermarket, dreaming of your enumerations!
What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at
night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!
–and you, García Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?

I saw you, Walt Whitman, childless, lonely old grubber, poking
among the meats in the refrigerator and eyeing the grocery boys.
I heard you asking questions of each: Who killed the pork chops?
What price bananas? Are you my Angel?
I wandered in and out of the brilliant stacks of cans following you,
and followed in my imagination by the store detective.

We strode down the open corridors together in our solitary fancy
tasting artichokes, possessing every frozen delicacy, and never passing the
cashier.

Where are we going, Walt Whitman? The doors close in a hour.
Which way does your beard point tonight?
(I touch your book and dream of our odyssey in the supermarket and
feel absurd.)
Will we walk all night through solitary streets? The trees add shade
to shade, lights out in the houses, we’ll both be lonely.
Will we stroll dreaming of the lost America of love past blue automo-
biles in driveways, home to our silent cottage?
Ah, dear father, graybeard, lonely old courage-teacher, what America
did you have when Charon quit poling his ferry and you got out on a
smoking bank and stood watching the boat disappear on the black waters of
Lethe?
Allen Ginsberg–Berkeley, 1955

I like this poem a lot - it’s very laid back, but at the same time it poses genuine reflective thoughts and insights and paints a veiled picture of what Ginsberg saw and knew for his time, as he walked with Whitman…and especially since reading this:
gradesaver.com/allen-ginsber … /section7/
When we’re able to view a poet’s life and where they are coming from or came from, his/her poetry may be lot easier to understand and much more appreciated, if not in its entirety, at least as the beginning of a journey.

I think that some poems, when their meaning remains hidden to us, may be far more enriching to us as we ourselves then will try to seek out that meaning from the poet’s point of view and from within our own lives.

But this poem by Ginsberg in being summarized and analyzed , in knowing and understanding it better, can only add to its flavor, meaning and poetry - especially if one is not so aware of the time in which he wrote and what he was about.

I think that with many poems, we only see the part of the iceberg which floats above…what lies below remains hidden to many of us. Sad…

:blush:
I meant for the above poem to go in Some Poems That We Might Share but perhaps the poem knew better where it was meant to be. :laughing:

It will not be uprooted.

BALLAD OF THE MOON
Federico García Lorca

The moon came into the forge
in her bustle of flowering nard.
The little boy stares at her, stares.
The boy is staring hard.
In the shaken air
the moon moves her arms.
and shows lubricious and pure,
her breasts of hard tin.
“Moon, moon, moon, run!
If the gypsies come,
they will use your heart
to make white necklaces and rings.”
"Let me dance, my little one.
When the gypsies come,
they’ll find you on the anvil
with your lively eyes closed tight.
“Moon, moon, moon, run!
I can feelheir horses come.”
“Let me be, my little one,
don’t step on me, all starched and white!”

Closer comes the the horseman,
drumming on the plain.
The boy is in the forge;
his eyes are closed.
Through the olive grove
come the gypsies, dream and bronze,
their heads held high,
their hooded eyes.

Oh, how the night owl calls,
calling, calling from its tree!
The moon is climbing through the sky
with the child by the hand.

They are crying in the forge,
all the gypsies, shouting, crying.
The air is veiwing all, views all.
The air is at the viewing.

Wow! :angelic-blueglow:

To me the poem has little to do with existential angst - at least it seems nothing like works in the existential canon, and instead of what I would call angst I find in Howl, terror, rage, passion, overload, self-abuse, ecstasy. IOW words extreme experiences, not the private empty soul wandering empty streets unsure of its next move and phobic.

I also don’t see Ginsburg as nihilistic, either in this poem or as a person.

I am sure Whitman’s works will be more famous, but he wrote many great poems. Ginsburg wrote two great ones, Howl and Kaddhish. Most of the rest is weak at best and crap at worst.

I have to confess a tendency, Moreno, to paint with a broad brush when I describe the postwar poets, of whom Ginsburg is so representative, the ones who helped usher in postmodernism with its attenuating devotion to meaninglessness. I see angst here, masquerading as terror and rage. Not that there weren’t things to be terrified of or enraged about in the heyday of Ginsburg, but that doesn’t excuse his almost joyful embrace of negativity.

I should say, by the way, that I don’t dislike “Howl.” It’s good poetry. Even great in spots.

But this:

Moloch! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unob
tainable dollars! Children screaming under the
stairways! Boys sobbing in armies! Old men
weeping in the parks!

will never be confused with this:

I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
I loafe and invite my soul,
I lean and loafe at my ease observing a spear of summer grass.

I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric YAWP over the roofs of the world.

Rather than mere quality of poem, it’s more a question, I think, of what will stand the test of time; Whitman’s celebration of life will always resonate with the human heart. Ginsburg’s overload and self-abuse? Not so much.

If Ginsburg is too dark, Whitman is likewise too bright (though I like him a lot better than Ginsburg - I just think his writing is better).

My point being, beware of pronouncements like “celebration of life will always resonate with the human heart”.

Reminds me of a philosopher I read once, who said something like “all people have fond memories of their childhood”. He said that within the first few pages of his book. I stopped reading right there.

Celebration of life will always resonate with the human heart.

Surely some revelation is at hand.

Well we’re speaking (at least I was) about what will stand the test of time. Naturally, then, we’re not talking about individual preferences or tendencies.

I think insight into life is more precious than mere celebration of life - and I think that is what stands the test of time. But of course that’s just my opinion. Insight is what I value most in poetry.