human worth, from the other side...

ExtraC has made a case that human beings are “ignorant and full of sin”
I am here to make the case for the other side of matters…

ExtraC holds that human beings have no worth, either collectively or individually…
so, let us start there… how do we judge such a matter? what criteria would
we use to make such a judgement? How would we judge such a matter?

so, by EXTRAC thinking, we have no worth and we are ignorant…
so that means that Einstein or Newton had no worth and were ignorant…
so that means that Science has no worth, science is created by human beings,
who have no worth and are ignorant… science has no value for ExtraC…

Science is the collective attempt to increase our knowledge of existence…
and according to EXtraC, science has no value or hasn’t increased our knowledge…
we hold the same knowledge that our ancestors held back 10,000 years ago…
see the problem with extraC grand announcements is that they have no point
of comparison, what is he comparing his idea to? people have no worth, compared to
what? People are ignorant compared to who? People can do math problems that 200 years
didn’t even exist… how is that being “IGNORANT” or having no “worth”…
his grand pronouncements are made in a vacuum with nothing to compare it to…

mankind has made incredible strides in the last 200 years… are they worthless
and have no value because ExtraC and his ilk cannot comprehend them?
he cannot place them historically, so they are worthless…
for example, the streets we walk on are far safer today, then they
were for hundreds of years… It was very dangerous to walk the streets of
any city in Europe for centuries… the crime rate in cities has fallen
dramatically over the centuries… and how has that fact turn us into
beings with no value or having ignorance?

what my point about the safety of cities today comes from the fact that
we live in “Modern” times… I am sure that EXTRA writes on his computer,
in a nice warm house, taking a car to work, giving the fact that our current
civilization is the point where an average human being lives a better life then
a King did in the 17th century… how is that a failure of human existence?

oh, but ExtraC will complain about the “morals” of people have not increased…
such a thing cannot be measured or timed or weighted to be sure…
but I would argue that the “Morals” of people have gotten better…
but then we would have to make some standard of morals to
be able to make a statement for or against the improvement of
morals in people… how would we judge such a matter?

ExtraC looks at people and see’s the worst, and I, as a liberal, see people
as a work in progress and I can see something Extra cannot and will not see,
that people are essentially good, and the propaganda and lies that
drive people to act with malice and hate toward people,
are the lies and propaganda that people like extraC and UR
bring to people…the hate brought to people are the hate
and anger that Extra and UR bring to the table…

Kropotkin

I hold that human beings have incredible worth,
and that is part of my having or holding liberal values…
I oppose capital punishment because I hold those human beings
have value… even if, If they have committed a crime…
our value has human beings do not decrease or disappear if we
commit an action such as murder or hate or violence…the
declaration of independence very foundation is in this statement,

“all men/human beings are created equal”

and that they have value and worth, no matter what their personal
situation is… all people have value, be it they are poor or
homeless or conservatives, or liberals or Russians or black.
all human beings have value…regardless of their personal
situation…

Does a conservative hold that all “people have value?”.

No, of course not, for them, human worth is conditional, dependent on
one’s wealth, skin color, race, creed, or sexual orientation…
the conservative will happily take away the rights of anyone who
doesn’t fit into their own very narrow conception of what a human being is…

for example, the conservative will hold that if you don’t hold their specific values,
of loving the opposite sex or believing in the death penalty, you have no value…
you can only have worth if, if you hold certain specific conservative values…

a liberal holds every human being has value regardless of any specific values one
holds…you have value even if you love someone of the same sex or have a
different skin color…human value isn’t conditional to a liberal,

we all have value… as we are all, all of us

‘‘all men/human beings are born equal’’

born equal, having equal value

Kropotkin

let us flesh this out some…

take the ongoing war the conservatives have with Trans gender people…
we have conservatives taking away the social, political, economic rights
of the Transgender… on what basis does the conservative do this?

Bottom line… the Transgender holds to different values then the conservative…
and this is enough, in the mind of the conservative, to withhold the rights
of the Transgender person… in other words, the Transgender person
has less value than others because they are Transgender people…
whereas to the Liberal, we want and fight for Transgender people to
have the exact same rights and options that we ourselves holds to…

“all men/human being are born equal”

and we act upon this fundamental point of view by
ensuring that all people have the same rights has everyone else,
regardless of the values and beliefs they might hold to…

we don’t limit the economic, political, social rights that Transgender people
have… as the conservative does in passing laws limiting the rights of Transgender
people…

or said another way, the conservative holds that Transgender people have less
worth then others because they are Transgender… and this holds true for the
conservative in terms of one’s skin color, race, creed, religion, sexual orientation,
or place of origin… in other words, the conservative holds that people from
some countries have greater value than people from other countries because
they are from one country then another…that is a value judgement
about the value of certain countries over other countries… value judgements
based on prejudice, bigotry, biased viewpoints, ignorance…

I hold that “all men/people are created equal” and it doesn’t
matter where they were born, who they love, how they dress or
the color of their skin…I hold to these values because I am a
liberal and I hold that

“all men/people are created equal”

Kropotkin

a liberal: everyone has value even if their beliefs are different than mine…
unconditional acceptance of people regardless of the values they hold…

a conservative: you only have value if you hold the same beliefs as I do…
conditional acceptance of people as having value as long as I agree with
their beliefs…

Kropotkin

the conservative conditional valuation holds great interest because
it is how they approach the world…

IQ45 breaks the law and because it is a rich, white guy, its all good,
a poor black man… off with his head… the conservative holds
who commits the crime is as important as the broken law itself…

in words, justice is conditional on who breaks the law,
which is why rich, white people can get away with crimes
that would have conservatives shouting for death if done by a poor minority person…

Kropokin