i recently watched a documentary on the ways in which various animals share information.
chimps as it hapens, transmit information the same way we do; teaching.
a group of about 7 monkeys ranging from the leader to newcomers will go out in a single hunting unit…
they assign specific roles to each monkey… the newest usually being the flusher…
this group of chimps will look for a group of smaller monkeys (chimps eat other monkeys if you didnt know) and set the trap.
most of the monkeys will be assigned the task of corraling the monkeys in a straight line… they gather on either side of the monkeys and form a sort of funnel where the flusher is intended to scare the monkeys…
meanwhile the most experienced chimp positions himself at the end of the funnel and hides himself amongst the leaves…
he waites while the monkeys are coralled down the funnel and when the moment is just right he snatches one of the fleeing monkeys…
this isnt as easy as it looks… the monkeys they try to catch are extremly nimble. their only shot at actually getting one is these complex social hunting groups…
what does that say about intelligence if chimps act in this way?
the same series featured an episode where a seal could solve logic puzzles 5 times faster than 6 and 7 year olds…
in fact the seal was smarter than most adults when it came to logic puzzles…
what does that say about our intelligence?
i think it means that our believed solemn sentience is somewhat of a misconception…
Chimps have failed self-awareness tests pretty consistantly, then someone thought; hey, lets test chimps in natural settings. Turns out the bastards are clearly self aware to some degree and aware of the minds of others but only in certain circumstances, very limited circumstances, like manipulating/tricking other chimps, and probably say, hunting down monkeys.
yeah, chimps are a lot more self-aware/intelligent/aware of other brains, then some (a lot) of mentally handicapped/autistic people.
Chimps rule, but they’re a huge cry from humans. Humans have like 6 levels of awareness, he thought that she thought that he thought (the average human anyway) chimps can’t come close to that kind of mental circus. Though they can remember random number chains for a lot longer, and stuff of that nature.
Again, its nothing close to a human and is a proto-awareness at best, but people do discount chimps.
I don’t know what to say about that other then it can be really profficient in X area more profficient then humans (like chimps and random number chains) but is basically worse then humans at a billion other complex mental tasks. Even a non-self aware animal can show this type of mental-loop jumping.
I mean that they fail consistantly except for in certain limited chimp oriented tasks. (very fucking impressive none-the-less, like i said, more self-aware/aware of others then plenty of mentally handicapped/autistic humans).
like they are self-aware/aware of other’s minds, but only in chimp oriented tasks like decieving another chimp (they don’t do well at all with these things in a lot of chimp on chimp cooperation tasks)
but for HUNTING with other chimps they do, and can probably even put themselves mentally in the position of prey/even predators.
Its fucked that they have almost no self-awareness for dozens and dozens of chimp tasks, and then can do mental loops envolving self-awareness/awareness of others with other tasks. thats the strange/interesting case though.
the chimp brain doesn’t show these awarenesses for many tasks but for some it does.
Dolphins are self-aware to some extent as well and can use tools. Not a hammer, but they cover their long mouths with some kind of sponge shit to avoid scraping their faces when searching the sea floor. Clever bastards. they also attempt to perfect their bubbles/inspect them with sonar/, sleep with only half a brain, and etc. Amazing animals as well.
I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that chimps are capable of murder as well… and I don’t mean hierarchical or territory related deaths. I mean cold blooded murder.
Well, joker, er,the.fool, I think any creature with a certain level of intelligence is capable of it. Especially social animals. I do not think very many non social animals do it. Perhaps badgers but, then they are badgers and have a pretty nasty rep. anyway.
Orcas kill
Dolphins and porpoise kill for no apparent reasons, they do not eat what they kill, they were not being threatened by what they killed, they just kill. Not all the time but, it has been documented. They kill other species and or their own. Orcas seem to me the most interesting of our cousins, their ways are more complex than they need to be for simple creatures. Sentience is not in doubt with these creatures. We just need to learn to communicate with them and work with them.
Supply the resources and information for that, its not that I specifically doubt you, but any claim like this, its nice to provide the science for. Plus, i’m just interested to see that research directly. think, i’ve read stuff about dolphins ramming shit to death.
First of all ‘their ways more complex than they need to be for simple creatures’
What criteria do you base this on? they’re not simple… even if they were, simple creatures require complex adaptations all the time. Whats ‘required’ isn’t determined by you, but by natural selection, all the complexity, is being used. So they are as complex as they need to be, or they wouldn’t be that complex, natural selection produced the complexity so that they could survive.
As to sentience and animal brains, you know nothing about the state of brain-science or consciousness research in animals (as you continously display) so don’t make defintivie statements about it. Have you put an orca in an fmri machine? do you know the results of those who have? or any animal research? no. Nor are you remotely obective enough to listen to research that contradicts your beliefs about animal brains.
you go on about cat psychics, don’t talk like you know anything or care about real animal brain science, you don’t.
