I don't care for Truth.

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Wisdom and truth aren’t my priorities.

I want to live, experience the world, feel fulfilled and joyful. Philosophy is a tool that helps me put issues to rest. It is a source for me to find confidence in an action, a compass I follow.

I don’t care about being ’ right’ by the standards of another. If you said to me, I can be ‘wrong’ and happy… that I’ll never know of my mistakes and they wont hurt me, I’d say, let me be wrong.

This mentality strikes me as not having much interest in truth. I don’t think I do.

If you’d rather the truth and unhappiness than a lie and happiness, I ask you, Why?

2

I think one can even justify this philosophical belief of yours, philosophically. I am not sure what it means to have/believe the truth. It seems to me having the right thought in the mind, one that ‘fits’ reality ‘out there’ is considered knowing the truth. To me that’s like saying someone with E=MCsquared written on their forehead understands Einstein’s theory.

I can remember passing an essay test on existentialism in college. I got an A. I simply fed back what the professor had said. I had the right beliefs/answers in my head. I had no idea what the fuck most of it meant. Only years later when I came at the stuff again could I come back to those ideas and understand what I had written. I didn’t know shit.

That’s only a partial support for what you are saying. The other part is this I’d rather be happy than know the truth. I am not sure happy is quite my criterion, but being right is sure not the center. The center for me is also experiential. I want things to feel good. I think they only can if there is some at the very least instrumental truth in what I believe, but I tend to agree about the focus.

3

I made a post long ago asking if we could only have truth or happiness which of the two would we choose?

I conclude there are allot of misguided “truth seekers” at ILP. They are the majority.

4

I don’t think this is a simple choice. Or I am not sure if making a choice makes sense, emotionally even. I want what makes me feel right to be coupled profoundly to reality or it may be the equivalent of heroin, which feels great for a while but hasn’t really addressed my real needs. Despite the feeling I may have to, in fact, go to work the next day.

5

Humans are naturally both truth seeking aswel as lie making beings.
An understanding of history shows this to be true.

A truth seeker typically projects and preconceptualizes what truth is, before he finds it. This is an error.

6

That’s what scientists do. It’s how to organize an experiment. At the very least, it is one good way. It’s only a problem if it is the only way you allow yourself to experience and/or if you refuse to notice contradictory evidence. We are born with a lot of momentum. And by the time we are old enough to really start challenging ideas, we have been given many, the bulk of them indirectly. We have little choice but to move outward with the ‘truths’ we have. There are good and bad ways to react to life from there, but the basic condition is impossible to avoid.

7

The lie can set you free. I’ve lied to persons whom I felt would be devestated if I told them what I believed to be true. Examples: my mother who suffered major depression once asked me if my having depression had anything to do with her. I said no, because I loved her; a woman I dated asked me if I had gotten married because she was unresponsive to me in many ways. I said no, because I loved her.
As for any universal truth, I’ve not met it. I see propositions and guesses that either work for me or do not. Just as science provides often the best guess yet about what can be considered universal truth, and just as philosophy at its best offers alternatives to my personal beliefs, truth is usually proximation, seldom or maybe never absolute. Does that mean everything other than these guesses and beliefs is a lie? I think not. For me a lie is going againts the beliefs and guesses that sustain my mental equilibrium.

8

Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool’s paradise, for only a fool will think that it is happiness

  • Bertrand Russel.
9

Happiness first OP. Then truth. People who tell you truth is better can’t even define it for you. When you’re happy you know you’re happy.

Besides that, where’d the whole idea that they’re mutually exclusive come from?

10

In a word, “Presumption”, specifically the nativity involved in thinking that you can have one without the other for very long.
Of course you have to gain a specific one of those in order to even answer the question as to whether it was worth gaining.

If not for that little issue, you would be right.
But realize that in 10,000 years, your plan has been tried by the larger portion of society throughout.
Very, very few people are particularly concerned about being right.
Those who actively do not care were called “gay”, meaning playfully complacent.
Guess where it has always led.

11

Wiki- Truth is most often used to mean in accord with fact or reality or fidelity to an original or to a standard or ideal.

Truth above all is a standard that says if it isn’t in accord with facts, under no circumstances, is it or could it be, a viable alternative.

Truth to me seems like a means to an end, not an end itself. I fail to see how one can say truth in itself is the end all for them.

The mentality of truth above all, seems like the result of an individual that has very few things they truly value… things that they’re prepared to value.

@Ierrellus

Thanks for sharing that.

In those instances, you valued compassion over truth.

Sometimes it can be very hard to know when to let a friend go, and Truth is always a friend to those in need.

@volchok

I interpret that quote as you siding with truth over (a fools) happiness.

What is truth to you? And why do you feel so inclined to follow it?

Could it be because it’s safe? It wont let you down… You can trust it.

If, hypothetically, I took all truth away from you, would you feel comfortable moving through life?

@Smears

I don’t think truth and happiness are mutually exclusive, but creating the dichotomy is an easy way to discover ones priorities.

@James

It’s a hypothetical.

In it, I stipulated that if one were to choose the ‘lie’, that the truth wouldn’t interrupt one’s peace.

As Smears said, truth and happiness aren’t mutually exclusive out in the world. If one prioritized happiness over truth, they wouldn’t necessarily abandon truth, rather, they’d embrace it but know when to let it go. That being, when it hinders one from grasping what one values higher than truth, happiness or peace of mind.

How does that strike you? As complete bullshit? Naivety?

PS. Thanks Moreno and Dan for your input.

12

Well, at the very least, at the tactical level it can seem like it. But good point.

I am not so sure people know when they are happy. I think often people think they ought to be, but are not. Like people at parties. I would love to think they all know how they really feel, but I think this takes some courage, because if ‘I’ am not enjoying what other people seem to be enjoying, perhaps there is something wrong with me
can be a hurdle for many.

13

I think it’s very strange when people make this argument.
There is nothing safe or good about the truth. Embracing the truth means that you will accept it regardless of how beautiful or ugly, comforting or depressing, extraordinary or boring, it may be.

If the truth were safe, there would be no religions or the need to lie, occasionally.

14

Do you want me to tell you the truth?

Think about that.

Definitely happiness is the goal, don’t get me wrong about that.
The issue is “I don’t care for truth”.
You can’t have happiness for long at all without a sufficient degree of truth to maintain it.
So if you want happiness for a very long time, you will have to “care for truth” enough to find the truths that involve that length of time.

You can’t achieve any goal in disregard of truth, except by accident. It is about like saying that money is your goal in life, but you don’t care about profit/loss issues.

15

Consider this:
Animals hide and deceive. Falseness is a fact of survival and thriving. It is part of survival instinct. Its easy to deceive or be honest . The hard part is knowing which one to do at the time.

16

@Volchok

I don’t believe the Truth is easy to follow.

By the same token, an addiction isn’t easy follow. But does it make one feel safe?

@James S Saint

When I said I don’t care for truth, I meant I don’t care for truth as an end in itself. I don’t care for truth for the sake of truth. It is a means to an end, yes, and for that it has a level of value, but only as a tool.

@Kriswest

Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Creatures valued survival over honesty. If they didn’t, odds are, they would not survive.

My point was not so much about intending to deceive another as to letting go of the pursuit for truth at the expense of anything and everything.

17

My point is knowing when and when not. That makes the difference

18

The method for determining when and when not to, seems apparent to me - Don’t pursue truth when it’s at the expense of something you value higher than truth.

Do people know what they truly value? If they don’t, how can they find satisfaction? To find satisfaction would be a fluke, because the individual wouldn’t be able to pursue or direct themselves towards that which could satisfy them. That which they value.

One may pursue truth, for it’s always been fair. But is that what one’s truly interested in? Not me. I’m interested in being satisfied. I value satisfaction in and of itself. No strings. I value peace. I value beauty. I value experience.

I don’t value truth as I value these things. If I did, I’d have never told a lie my entire life. But I did, and I have. I wouldn’t have a creative bone in my body. I’d spend every waking moment in the pursuit of truth. But, I love art and creativity, and I don’t spend my days seeking truth and truth alone.

In order to be able to know when and when not, one must know why they would and why they wouldn’t. One must know what their priorities are. One must be able to accept and believe in their values. One must be able to cope with throwing themselves at something… risking loss.

19

I don’t think so. Like I said before, accepting or searching for truth means that will have to accept certain things where you like it or not. There’s nothing safe about that realization.

20

Google’s definition of Safe - Protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.

To believe and rely on truth, is very responsible. It’s the composition of the best information one has at a given moment. If one was looking for something that is stable, has low risk of change, even lower risk of degradation - Truth’s your guy, your friend. If one doesn’t want to be confronted by reality, one would be wise to pull reality close and adjust oneself to the climate of reality.

How often do you hear people interested in ‘truth’ shy away from any questions in relation to the foundation of their truth? Questions that would throw in doubt high percentages of their understandings.

I’m questioning people’s motives for seeking truth.