Ideal/Real

How subjective noumena relate to phenomena, and how both refer to the objective world.

Man perceives a geography.
His senses translate stimuli into neural patterns and transmits them to the brain where they are interpreted into phenomena using apriori concepts ([size=80]Kant)[/size], e.g., space, time, cuasality.
So there are two conversion, first on a physical level then on a mental level.
This data can be combined into concepts, ideals, ideas…or left in their raw as abstractions, sensations…

If this mind want to use these concepts in real-time he reconverts them into movement, action, via his nervous system…and the consequences of his actions determine the accuracy of his abstractions.
Nervous system is the mediator inward and outward and there si where language lies.

Kant refers to this objectively real presence, converted into/noumenon/phenomenon as a "thing-in-itself.
It is the forever unknown…since man can only deal with its representations, which represent its qualities but not its essence.
The translation/Interrelations are useful and sufficient, therefore all its perceived qualities - interpretations - are as valid as the quality of consequences produced when applying them in rel-time.

Schopenhauer dismisses this thing-in-itself - for various reasons, using convincing arguments - and replaces it with will and what he calls mater - mater here is not he conventional understanding of a indivisible, immutable, thing…claiming will/matter are interdependent.
Matter for him is not a thing.
Will is the interpreter - matter the interpreted.

‘Will,’ for him, is the groundless, truly free…timeless/spaceless…and even though he does not use it to imply intent, the average mind will nevertheless understand it as a claim that existence is intentional.

I’ve abandoned this term…‘will’…and I deny groundlessness.
All is energy…will only applies to energies that have evolved the ability to move intentionally.
How, is up for speculation.
I offer mine.
No god necessary.
Interaction is attraction/repulsion, and chaos, properly defined, suffice to explain how life can emerge from what is lifeless.
The difference between the two is intentionality
So, they suffice to explain, without certainty - how intentionality might have developed.

Chaos and natural selection are enough.
That which offers an advantage survives; survives long enough to pass on its patterns, methods etc.

Schopenhauer’s, as well, denied ‘thing’, and the knowability of the object being perceived.

Are the interpretations based on the essence of the object - its patterns?
Yes.
Does the object being perceived - interpreted - have colour, form, a smell, a sound…no>
This is how the observing subject interprets the object’s qualities, using a priori methods.

Appearance exposes essence…but appearance is not the object itself…it is a interpretation of its qualities.
In my world-view - that all is interactive energy - these qualities refer to its sequences, rhythms, rates of vibration its signature.
So colour, shape, scent, sound all are true in as much as they refer to an object qualities, translated into a form a subject can process and store and use to direct itself in the future.

The object is not absolutely knowable…and only via mediating patterns, e.g., light, atmosphere,…but this does not mean it is absolutely unknowable.
A subject can only know and understand another via the quality of its interpterion - which are proximations.

More accurate interpretations offer the subject an advantage, and so a priori concepts evolved because they sufficed and were advantageous. Were naturally selected.

All of the previous refers to what is ordered, ordering…or patterned in existence.
It excludes the disordering, disordered, the chaotic…
Therefore, existence is not entirely knowable…
Omniscience is impossible.

One reason is chaos…the other is flux.
All is changing, moving…so to know means you know what is true for a particular period - range - of space/time.

This range is not changing to a degree that it is useless…cosmic flux is not at the same rate as organic fluctuations, metabolism, mental/physical processing speeds etc.
Furthermore, patterns persist over huge lengths of space/time…
Human life - humans as a species, life on earth - does not compare.


Range of probabilities refers to a pattern’s possible interactions.

Knowing is about the perception and storage and connection of patterns.

Understanding is perceiving a pattern in these patterns - an underlying commonality.
Like trees of a specific kind, differentiated from trees as a general concept.
Or species differentiated from life; and breeds, types, races a differentiation of species.

Or perceiving rules - laws - that underlie organic behaviours, or natural phenomena.

Understanding makes the known predictable, validating the accuracy of the interpretation.

A word/symbol represents a mental concept…an abstraction…an idea/ideal.
An abstraction of a tree is not the tree itself…it is a representation, interpretation…like a painting of a tree, or a picture of one, is not the tree itself.
A photo of a dog is not the dog…both dog and photo exist…one representing, as accurately as possible, the other.
A picture of a dog is never complete, since it is a static image of a dynamic interactive becoming.
It is a slice of space/time beginning when the button was pushed and ending when the camera’s mechanical/chemical processes ended…were completed.

The dog may die…and the picture remains…but it is also decomposing, deteriorating. A representation can outlive the represented - in memory, for example.
I recall my dead father…I may dream of him, as if he were alive.
The essence of a dog, the specific dog, is in its actions…how it behaves…over time, revealing its personality.
This is not captured by a photo…but a series of photos are more complete - a film…but even a film is not enough.
A becoming is a multiplicity of sensual inputs…and our senses are not absolutely accurate, and not more than 5…because 5 suffice for survival.
My human senses are not acute enough to perceive all the minutia of processes that is the dog…and I lack a sense that can see the other dimensions.

Still the dog’s essence remains elusive because the specific dog is part of a continuum that stretches out in space/time before ti was conceived…and into the future until it dies.
A film reveals a behavioural pattern that indicates this past - hints at it…reveals it if you have eyes to see details.

Dog is not a thing…it is a process, a continuum…a dynamic interactive becoming…
And if we study its body with a powerful microscope there is no indivisible, immutable particle there…all is dynamic from the atomic all up to the cosmic.

When I see a tree I perceive its interpretation in my head…not the tree itself.
Light is the mediator…not the tree itself.
The tree is not in my head…but my subjective interpretation of sensory input - are automatically processed using apriori methods.


An area is interpreted as a mental map.
I draw out this mental map on paper.
Both are represesntations.
The map I drew a representation of my mental map; my mental map of an area…

The are ais not static…it is dynamic. Everything is in movement, including myself.
It is continuously changing.
I perceive the consequences of interactivity as change - one noetic map juxtaposed with another…
I can only perceive what the acuity of my sense and the processing speed of my brain allows.

The map is useful as long as I can use it to go from point A to point A in the predicted time, traversing predicted spaces…

The geography does not change at a rate to make maps useless…at least not on the level I need them for.
On the micro level the geography is never the same as it was a microsecond ago…but that doesn’t matter for my use of the map.
For my use its utility spans great periods of time…because these micro changes accumulate slowly, if no extraordinary event does not occur, like a meteor striking it…or a volcano erupting…

Exactly and stasis appears when the micro changes are unrecognized, and remain so, until

Until a fool tries to go to Place B…and then he blames the world.


Nihilism selectively constructs its own map…and demands that the world adjust itself to its distances, destinations, and elevations.

In extreme cases a mental case draws an imaginary map of middle earth and believes it exists in some occult age, in a secret place only he, and those like him, know exists.

And such an idiot was bound to, as bound to a rock punished for flying so near the sun, but in effect emerged from the underground, where he wrote the letters, exposing the reduced situation, where from he presupposed others will fall and fall again, dropping the hint of extreme weight that an imaginary landscape can be said to construe.

The imagination carries this image to the very edge, where from some very early souls feared a drop , hurling back into atrocious abysmal depths, not knowing that the all knowing Soul went back itraveled back, so as not to repeat gross

object to this punishing angel?

punishing with futile excessive pueril modes of mechanistic reactions… Is to teach the limits of comprehension to infants and supposedly elder wizard alike, tottering foolishly, again into another abysmal failure.

God help them poor souls.

There is a life form called ‘tree’…but if there is no human eye would there be an image of a tree?
If a tree falls in the forest…nobody is doubting the event, or that it causes effects…but if there is no ear, to interpret the atmospheric vibrations in the manner that it evolved to do so, is there sound?

Is the image of a tree a representation of a living presence we’ve named tree?
What is sound but how many organism’s, including humans, evolved to interpret atmospheric vibrations.

If there were no life in the universe, existence would not be different…other than that it was lifeless.
The objective world requires no subjective interpretation of it to exist.

Abstractions, ideas, images, sounds, is where subject comes in contact - relates - with objective reality.

Representations are useful.
Their utility is what establishes them, and the apriori methods of construction them.
A representation must represent something that is true about the represented; something that can be verified through actions, choices, application.

So colour, represents something actual about the represented…it is not arbitrary nor a social construct; it is a evolved way of interpreting something about the objectively real, the present.
Therefore appearances are not superficial…they are interpretations of a entire past - a continuum, manifesting a presence.

E.g., colour is visual interpretation of a particular vibration, that exposes something actual about the represented.
It, along with other sensory input are used to distinguish a type.

Hahaha what a moron jesus christ

Subjective and objective is a kids dichotomy which students in the first year of journalism or most humanity courses get taught is complete bullshit. You are catching yourself out moron…because you never listen…what objective world??? Your perception of the objective world is the only thing that is objective and it does not survive without you…becuase it is subjective…very useful type of thinking there hahahahahahah

In case you get confused…your perception of the world is not the objective perception of the world…you arrogant crass Canadian simpleton

I know you and Satyr have a habit of insulting each other.
Save that for places other than ILP.

The more it speaks…the more it reveals.
I want him to never, ever, stop revealing…who and what it is.
It validates my judgment and my choice to ban it.
Even if I was not the one who made the final choice.

A simple personal rule:
The insults or praise coming from those who I’ve lost respect for - considering their judgments and choices flawed - do not bother me.
Nevertheless, they are disruptive in any conversation that purports to be serious and adult.
Untie my hands and I’ll deal with…it.
Buuuut…your forum will become a mess for a while.

If you choose to apply forum rules selectively - based on personal criteria - then let me know so I can prepare to endure the distractions, and keep my tongue tied.

p.s.
I’ve been banned from many forums for this exact reasons.
I was expected to endure insults, taunts, distractions, from simpletons and crazies…but the moment I responded, they could not tolerate it.
Why?
Because most admins - being Americanised and modern - identify with the weakling, the simpleton, the conventional thinker…the retard…the victim.
So, I’m always the “bully” because feeble spirits only see the agression of those they fear themselves, never the instigations from weaklings, like themselves.
From a weakling it is well-deserved rétributions, and they secretly cheer it on; but when the weakling gets his arse kicked its uncalled for agression- bullying.

Like all victims…they need to feel innocent…nothing they do is ever responsible for what happens to them.
Only ‘evil’ has free-will…the innocent have no agency.

i am indifferent. you do what you judge is best as a mod. i am ok with it.

this type of drama and psychoanalysing is below decent females, let alone men…i want to have a fight, he says he wants his hands untied and put me in my place…lets have a fight…video format???written??? pick a time pick a topic give me few weeks to prepare…
he says he would put me in my place…i offer completely unmoderated format,a video format…plenty of unmoderated video websites where i can hang it…

Who needs to waste time on this?
It is enough.

i wish you all the best