I would like ILP to identify decadence. In particular, I am interested in discussing the history of decadence; furthermore, I would like to compare the more modern western form of decadence (if there is such) vs. the older eastern form of decandence.
I recently watched a show on cable that detailed the the lifestyle of prostitutes and watched another show the detailed the pornography lifestyle. The shows sparked some questions: Is pornography an example of decadence or is it the result of “liberated persons” that are removed from the old moral and religious values pursuing business goals? The show about prostitutes actually glorified the lifestyle making it normal. (I admit that I criticize it as abnormal due to my own moral values; thus, I wonder if prostitution is decandent).
I do not want to primarily focus on prostitution or pornography as moral, decadent, et al… I repeat that I am interested in identifying decadence: e.g. Is obesity decadent?
I don’t know. “Decadence” seems only to mean “too much”, in a strong moral sense, and a concept or word-use I am uncomfortable with. I don’t think it is a word I would ever use to describe a person or a society. I’m not sure why. I wish I could say more.
the prostitution is the eldest profession. Since the world began there are women who live because of their skill to prostitute for something. But propaganda of prostitution on the TV is not the best way to educate children, who are watching it, and actually not quite interesting way to fill in your time. Degradation is to the front - there is degradation when younger generation is worse than the elder. If so, we’re going down and down to the giant abyss… But how can we help - prostitution, drugs, alchohol, guns on the street; blood, horror, death on the TV, a strenuous life, scandals, problems everywhere… How can a kid live this way? I don’t find it possible, do you?
decadence depends upon the moral standard in which the decadent behaviour is judged…
it could be argued that non-christian actions done against a christian moral standard could be seen as decadent…
it could also be argued (as Nietzsche so eloquently did) that christian/socialist/civic actions done against a non existent moral standard could be seen as decadent…
if you want to compare the different societal standards, elaborate on which ones you need reviewed…
I think you will find that throughout history, people have done as people will do… they always have and they always will… what has changed is the moral standard against which they are judged…
e.g. an aldulterer in victorian times may have been put in stocks and publically tortured and scorned… an aldulterer today usually suffers nothing unless their spouse takes them to divorce court… but the public stigma is not there as it once was… a sign that modern society is decadent? if you want to be victorian, sure… or is it a modern reflection on the decadence that once was considered the social norm…
and your prostitution question falls under similar consideration…
The concept of decadence would cease to exist if we could stop applying subjective moral values to human actions in order to determine if their merit.
Why not rely on on scientific method to determine "good"or “bad” actions? Find out the long-term harm/benefits of these actions on the individual,society,and world.
Decadence is associated with degeneracy, with an inability to deal with the next challenge that comes along. Perhaps we could develop this. If a society could easily be conquered, or could fall into disarray under the slightest pressure, then it would be decadent.
This approach would have some curious consequences - perhaps curious enough to count against it. Theocratic societies, or those that exhibited traditional morality, might actually be very fragile because they would not engage the commitment of the majority of their people. Societies where there was great freedom to bahave as you liked might fare better because people would care about preserving that freedom.
However, the vulnerability of traditionally moral societies is probably a consequence of modern communicatons. If you are unhappy with such a society, it is now much easier than it used to be to get in touch with other dissidents and realise that you are not alone. And the robustness of free societies cannot be guaranteed. If we are all free to become cossetted and to avoid all challenges in life, we will be in trouble when a real challenge does come along.
Not so, most of the nobility in England had affairs and zip happened to them. Also, in California adultery is not considered grounds for divorce. Chuckle, Winston Churchill’s mother (an American) had an affair with the King of England and his father died of syphilis.
To me decadence is excess. Chuckle, I am currently living just outside Sin City, talk about excess and expensive thrills.
No, the scientific method was developed to provide objective explainations for natural phenomena. To borrow a page from Monooq; you’re disgraceful…take the d*ck out of your ass and read a book.
True, but commoners still committed adultery, and often did not marry at all during this time. Ben Franklin was never formally married. Ah, the musical My Fair Lady comes to mind, Eliza Dootlittle was illigitiamate.
Well it just took me by surprise. I don’t even know her. The comments just really seemed inappropriate and incongruous with the conversation. I can’t remember having crossed swords with her in the past. Maybe we have and there’s some grudge or other, I don’t know.
Shy is just a little abrupt sometimes, I sense, and was only trying to capture some of Monooq’s fierce and biting humor, and simply grabbed the wrong end, however it came out. Just my thought.
The word also means that something is in a state of decline. I suppose that it could also be said that the decline is not necessary. So, a person that eats to the point of creating a health threat (I would stipulate a self imposed health threat) could be said to be decadent.
Of course, such a person might be said to be self-destructive and that would make them no longer decadent in my opinion. Anyway, decadence would indicate to me that the person was willfully, knowingly, and even happily entering a state of decline.
Jerry, keep the courage of your convictions regardless of what others believe or the names they call. Chuckle, I’ve been called names too.