I sorted of wanted to make a less serious and funner thread to take a break from thinking about all the morality/ethics threads.
So, the question is: If aliens existed would they like music?
This might seem like a dumb question, but I actually found it really interesting once I thought about it…
What if music that sounds “good” to us would actually sound horrible to these hypothetical aliens?
Are certain sounds and rhythms universally considered “pleasant”? Or is it unique to the human brain that certain sounds are pleasant to hear?
It might help to answer this question if we ask another question: Do animals respond to music?
Some parots can mimmick melodies and even sing certain songs. Many species of birds can “sing”. Whales can make very mystical and soothing sounds.
But even though animals can make these sounds, do they still find them as pleasant as we do?
Since humans are capable of speech, it seems that our brains have a greatly improved ability to recognize melodies and rhythmic patterns - perhaps animals are lacking in this ability.
Some other things to consider is that smaller things generall produce higher sounds, and bigger things produce deeper sounds. If these hypothetical aliens existed, and if they were within similar sizes to us, perhaps things in their environment would make similar sounds to things in our environment. Maybe it is universally recognized that deep sounds means “big” where as higher sounds means “small”.
True that the bigger make deeper sounds and the smaller, higher. This is just wavelength being inversely proportional to frequency (pitch). But this comment, and your post, are human interpretations of the not-human. Even if the non-human had the same sensory faculties, would they have the same reaction? You could ask the same about humans. Ah! But with humans, you can empathise. If you see in a human, the response in yourself, you assume you think/sense/whatever in the same way. The abstract question of whether ‘this is really true’ is irrelevant - only your own empathy is relevant.
You may be interested in the fact that the minor scale in the traditional western scale is also called the ‘Aeolian’ mode. In greek, this relates to the wind. If you listen to the sounds the wind makes, it does resemble the minor scale. Perhaps man has always felt plight or struggle or chronic sadness in the face of wind, and thus developed sad reactions towards it that pass down through empathic practices over generations.
The Dorian, I think, in greek relates to woods and probably the sounds they make. This is also a minor scale, but with the sixth augmented up a semi-tone to a major sixth, rather than minor. There are 5 other modes that I don’t know the origins of: the Ionian (major), the Lydian, Mixolydian, Phrygian and the Locrian: the 3 major modes follow by 2 more minor ones. They’re all the same scale (2 tones, 1 semi-tone, 3 tones, 1 semi-tone) but with the root in each of the 7 notes respectively.
But this is all human harnessing of sound relative to his own experience. And only in empathy can he assume that another relates.
Therefore, if aliens came to listen to our music, the real question is: “Could you relate/empathise with them?” (communication only possible with empathy).
Cool question.
Short answer: yes I believe they would, and the presence of some rhythm is the most likely aspect in common with our music.
Longer:
I’m assuming aliens of a highly intelligent social species. Intelligent because I don’t think the music of amoebas, if there is any, would ever be recognizable to us in any way - though it technically would constitute alien life. Also, among humans (the only species we are certain has music under whatever definition), music is highly social - for mating, rites of passage, holidays (often derived from astronomical patterns), etc. so if these areas overlap, I think some kind of alien music is likely.
Your examples of earth animals such as whales opens the door that frequency may or may not be within our hearing range. Because there is so much sonic diversity on this planet: sonar of bats (not claiming music for them or any other species except us), high frequency hearing of dogs, etc. I wouldn’t assume common ground with aliens on frequency - as likely to be inaudible to us as audbible.
But in the field of music interpretation/theory, rhythm is often thought to have come from patterns in nature such as breathing, heartbeats, walking, ocean waves, seasons.etc. and this we woud likely have in common. Some Eastern music does not stress rhythmic precision as much as most Western music, but it is a common thread in most forms even when they are not otherwise connected by any known relationships (different geographies, times, purposes, etc.).
Out there somewhere may be a group of adolescent aliens undulating around high tech laser bonfires, to frequencies we cannot hear and rhythms too fast or slow for us to appreciate - but I bet they are doing it just the same !
I do have a measure of seriousness in saying this. I’m going to sound like Carl Sagan here, but a single galaxy has billions of stars, and the universe has billions of galaxies. And theoretical physicists are even pondering billions of universes. Can we really extrapolate the experience of life on one tiny planet and say that we can expect life to be the same or similar if it exists elsewhere? The Earth might contain life as emergent from carbon-based matter, but what’s to say that life in the universe can emerge from other things or, even, other persistent experience? Can life emerge from persistent sound? From persistent waves, persistent light particles? Can an entire planet be said to be alive? This hearkens us back to some Native American conceptions of “spirit” being in all things.
Now I’m not no new-age junkie here. I’m not saying I necessarily believe this. But given the limitation of our experience of life, we must be open to it. All I’m saying is that, as philosophers, we should be careful in assuming that alien life will be just like us. Someone might respond to me and say, “well I guess it all depends on what you define as life” and I would respond “exactly”. The whole point is that we could never truly expect to define life in the universe, as vast as it is, from the experience of one little planet.
Now of course, having said all that, there’s three inescapable facts here:
Our current experience of life is the best we have at the moment and the best we may have for a long time to come;
I’m not one of these people that tries to say that certain philosophical questions, due to our limited experience and range, just simply can’t be discussed;
I think the real aim of the OP was as a thought experiment to investigate the value judgments placed on perception.
Nonetheless, I think any real philosophical discussion of the definition of life must consider the limits of our current experience, and the folly to some extent of extrapolating that on the entire universe at this point.
[quote="rasava"I think the real aim of the OP was as a thought experiment to investigate the value judgments placed on perception.
[/quote]
Exactly.
A common question that comes up when discussing aliens is “Would they be friendly?” - but this only ends up raising questions about perception; such as, “What is friendly?”… What the hypothetical alien race might consider “friendly” could be what we consider “aggressive”.
For example, it could be customary for some alien species to spray pheremones on each other before greeting each other - but what if these “pheremones” were lethaly poisonous to us human beings?
If they came to Earth, we might mistake the aliens as hostile while really they were only trying to greet us. Some intergalactic war might ensue simply because of a misunderstanding
Or perhaps certain social mannerisms that we have here on Earth would be recognized as signs anger by aliens. Maybe the act of smiling is to the aliens an act of frowning.
But then there is the possible explanation that our mannerisms and anatomical construction had logical reasons behind its existence that are universally beneficial. We stand on two legs so we have our hands free to do other things; the eyes are located above the mouth because if they were located below the mouth it would be true difficult to eat (and that is true for nearly every species of animal that has eyes)
You can take that logic and apply it to most aspects of the anatomy that make something “humanoid” - and it is possible that this logic may be universal. So perhaps if any sort of alien race did exist, it would be humanoid in its structure (although it might not be mammalian, it would still take on a human structure) since a humanoid structure might be the most advantageous possible structure for an intelligent species to thrive.
The hypothetical alien race might have a slightly different variance in structure (they might be a bit taller/shorter, hunched over, certain features might be exaggerated) due to variables in the environment it inhabited, the gravity of the planet, etc.
In response to “aliens might BE music” - if you think about it, we all are made up of “music”. Music is just vibrations. Matter is energy, and energy is really just “waves” or “vibrations”.
I really think you’re stretching. As I said before, our knowledge is limited to life on one planet in quadrillions of planets. Humanoid form is conducive to Earth; a Jupiter like planet, with its immense gravity, would most likely have a being where most of its mass is situated horizontally rather than vertically. We can come up with a million other examples. A gaseous planet would likely produce life that floats.
Now if you say that only planets like the Earth can produce life - you are certainly free to speculate that, but that’s all it is, completely pure speculation - like imagning that pegasi exist.
And saying we’re like music - that’s a stretch of the definition for sure. Imagine life that is just persistent energy. If you seen enough sci-fi you know what I mean. I don’t think you can compare that to human beings and say that such life is humanoid.
Still, I do feel there is always room in philosophy for pure speculation, as long as you know its limits.
Newsflash:
Aliens invaded earlier this morning. Reports suggest that they weren’t actually sensible to any species on the planet, nor did they affect any inanimate objects in any way. Curiously enough, nothing on this planet was actually sensible to the aliens either. The fact that they are here now, and likely to stay, is pure co-incidence. Nothing will change in anyone’s regular normal lives, we’ll just be cohabiting the same area of the universe as an alien race for the rest of our shared existences. Anything more at this point is just speculation
Speculation is only detrimental to philosophy insofar as philosophy demands to serve utility and direct/indirect relevance to a significant degree, or any kind of applicability. From here on, this becomes an ethical or moral debate The instinctual element of use-value and preservation or alteration of life and its ways, inherent in any morality that claims to be above and beyond the realms of instinct!
“Why not rather untruth?” - Nietzsche
It could be said that the speculation in this thread serves the “use” of exercising our imaginations. Whether this comes in handy later in life or towards life as a whole could be deemed just incidental next to the fact that merely exercising our imaginations is reward in itself.
Music is just like alien speculation in that it can enliven or excite the imagination, just as it might bring it down and laden it with heavier emotions, or simply act as neutral background insignificance. In that sense too, aliens are music :-"
That would not be a very convincing explanation. There are a great many aspects of human design that are inefficient and illogical, but which can be explained by the history of development; the retina, the laryngeal nerve, the appendix, all for starters. Why do we have two legs and not four? Why are we land-based not aquatic? Why is our spine at the back and not the front?
A semi-serious answer for a semi-serious question.
Well, my dog doesn’t pay attention to the TV or stereo no matter how exciting what’s on is. HOWEVER. I would not compare these hypothetical aliens to animals.
I think to answer the question, you need to wonder if WE will like music in the distant, distant future. Because I’d guess that aliens, or at least the aliens we encounter/are most likely to encounter, are equal to pressing fast forward on the human race. I’ve often had this funny (though maybe not PC) thought: You know how, as we progress, interracial babies become more commonplace? And you know how on Discovery Channel shows about the Klan they say stuff like “We’re just gonna become a shade of grey I tell ya!”? Well…what color are aliens usually reported as being? Lol.
I’m sure there’s arguments that could be made about the development of technologies like the Ipod or that nobody buys CD’s anymore. At the end of the day, it’s a tough call. If for no other reason than my gut. Music seems pretty universal; like something that will never go away. But aliens as I picture them seem so business-like. Maybe “the man” takes over soon and we can kiss our favorite tunes goodbye.
If they evolved to experience reality through that particular medium and have reached a point of biological sophistication so that they are aware of their own condition then yes.
^^^
The instinctual element of use-value and preservation or alteration of life and its ways, inherent in any morality that claims to be above and beyond the realms of instinct! 