If China Colonized America First?

Hey to all the philosophers out there, I have to do a seminar on What if China discovered America first, and established colony.

If I could compile a list of topics that would be great. I’m not really the best philosopher out there so if anyone has anything to contribute that would be great.

Some things I’ve got off the top of my head are:

  1. Interactions and relationships of natives would of been more peaceful
  2. Interactions and relationships of Europeans would have been more deadly (battle for expansions)
  3. Culture (obviously…)
  4. Economy would be based on a different system
  5. Educational beliefs would different
  6. Holidays such as Columbus days would not exist

What I’m really looking for though is topics I can really get into a kill time.
Thanks for your brains.

Why do you think interactions with natives would have been more peaceful?

Hrmm, perhaps I didn’t think this through. But when I think about history and how the Europeans were so manipulatize and destructive, I see it very hard for the Chinese colonists to have done more harm than the Europeans.

I doubt you’d find many Tibetans who’d agree with you… :confused:

Most tibetans living in tibet is enjoying a much better life than their parents, grand parents did.

Whiles someone’s signature is “sure tibet could use some freedon”, I say “sure that tibet could use some porno and marijuana”.

To say that the Chinese have no respect for human right, is being biased due to some recent historical events, which’s been greatle exaggerated by the west in order to fight the communists.

While you say something about tibet, inner mongalia and uygur, I say wales, scotland and northen irland. Actually, I say the whole american continet? What happend to all those incas, aztecs and maryars?

Historically speaking, the Chinese is some of the least expansionist nations ever. The europeans lived their lives by expanding - now they are all over the globe where they should’ve stayed in europe.

Whenever I hear a whiteman in Africa claim that God has left Africa, I want to tell him that God did left Africa when your great grandpa came…

That’s a fantasy, I’m afraid. Besides, when a nation is invaded, its sovereignty stripped away, it’s citizens tortured and killed by the thousands, it’s pretty crass and absurd to attempt to justify it by claiming “it was for their own good.” :confused: I’m sure man dictators and oppressors in history claimed their regime actually improved things for their new subjects.

And trying to change the subject to the crimes of others doesn’t change the facts one whit. Propaganda aside, the truth of China’s crimes in Tibet and other places is not hard to find. There are many cases, well documented by human rights groups, of torture and rape by Chinese troops. I simply can’t believe that any sane person would attempt to refute this! :astonished:

At any rate, obviously we’re talking an Alternate Timeline situation. If China had colonized North America, then by definition they’d be expansionist, wouldn’t they? :wink: I really doubt they’d be any chummier with the natives than white settlers were.

They “should’ve stayed in Europe”? :astonished: My, we do love to make value judgements, don’t we? :wink:

I guess if the “blacks” all would’ve “stayed in Africa” there simply wouldn’t be any humans on the other six continents. Would that have made you happier? :unamused:

That’s of no relevence to this issue.

The fact is this: europeans killed most indians - they rob all their wealth, burned their cultures and eventually, lived on their lands - the same goes fo africa - today’s african poverty and evil, is the direct result of the europeans colonization over the past centuries.

And this has what to do with China, exactly? :wink: Avoid the issue much?

This is the issue before you posted (note, of course not the original subject, but a issue raised by the starter):

the chinese is less aggressive to others than the europeans

You brought up tibet without mentioning, wales, irland, america ect…

Again, I’m just trying to bring the issue back, and in doing so, I’ve provided you with some newest and personal experiences and evidence, and my utter most serious claim about the origin of modern african evilness.

I’ve no intention to favour the chicon and bad mouth the euopeans, I’m simply being serious and thorough on the subject.

p.s. did you miss my other post immediately above the one you repied to?

C’mon, those aren’t “new experiences”! Unless you just now realized that the Native Americans and aboriginal Africans got the shaft, big time. :wink: It’s not news to the rest of us. I’ve written at length about it here at ILP. And I didn’t mention European wars because it never occured to me that anyone disputed them.

Consider, too, the role of geography in the whole situation. I assert that the relative isolation of China played at least as great a role as her disposition.

At any rate, no one disputes the savagery of the human species, but the slender evidence you cite doesn’t convince me that Chinese people are somehow racially exept from it. In antiquity certainly no wars were fought more savagely than the wars waged among the ancients in what’s now China.

All humans are African, if you trace it back far enough. So it’s certainly valid to say they shouldn’t have left Africa if it’s valid to say Europeans shouldn’t have left Europe. Although both statements are assanine.

Really, we’re arguing who’d win in a fight between Superman and Thor. :wink: There’s no real basis to make reliable claims based on such a hypothetical situation. But based on China’s own recent and ancient savagery, I doubt that things would’ve went that differently.

I guess I must ask you this: if all the Europeans and their descendants were gone from the Earth, do you think the world would see an era of eternal peace? That’s what you seem to insinuate. I say fat chance, but that’s just me.

WTF does talking to some “nice Chinese people” have to do with it? What makes you think I haven’t? You make too many groundless assumptions. At any rate, haven’t you spoken to some nice Europeans? Perhaps you shouldn’t discuss this until you have. :wink:

You’re way off base about Chinese history, and I begin to wonder if you have any grasp of history at all. But in the event I’m wrong, please link me with some info on this peaceful history and “bamboo-ness” you talk about. :laughing: The Chinese have fought some incredibly savage wars among themselves, and the Unification wasn’t a quilting bee, either. Certainly the Japanse and Chinese have had some “go-rounds,” but I assume you’ll want to blame that on Decadent Europeans, too. :unamused: At least you do exhibit the very Western tendency to see only what you want to see! :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW, it’s really not very useful to intersperse you own running commentary inside another persons posts. At best it’s very hard to follow. Better to break it up and take it point-by-point, if you really must resort to that odious and tedious style at all. No offense, meant- I don’t mean to sound harsh, it just strikes me as bad netiquette, if you will.

Firstly, I choose to reply to others this way because:

  1. It’s concise - point to point arguemantation. So no disillusioned rant ons.

  2. It’s telling you that I’ve read your post word for word.

I don’t really know why you dislike this style, but to me, this style is polite and efficient.

Again, in this post, much of the stuff is either something you didn’t say before, or some claim about how “groundless” and “tedious” I am. But in my “tedious” post above, I tried to refute or comment on exactly what you posted - you are not really completing the circle of argement. Please just try to refute me in strict fashion, otherwise too much misunderstanding and hostilities will occur, like it have here. I actually thought my that “tedious” posting style could serve better for all.

Don’t piss and cry- I never said your posts were all “groundless” or “pointless.” On the contrary, for the most part you’re polite and entertaining. Of course, since you fail to agree with me, you show yourself to be an ill informed ignoramous! :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

My main complaint with your chosen format is that at first glance it looked like you merely quoted my entire post without responding to anything. Only when I reread it did I realize you combed it line by line and crafted responses, some in context and some not. I think that “style” makes it look a bit like you’re tamping with my posts, even though you’re not. Anything within the ‘quote’ function should truly be an unadulterated quote, IMO. Perhaps my views of ‘netiquette’ are antiquated- anyone else have an opinion?

I appreciate that you read my whole posts, but a line by line refutation doesn’t really demonstrate that you tried to absorb it, as opposed to merely contradicting it.

I don’t understand how I fail to “complete the circle,” unless you expected me to simply change my mind. :wink: You answer my requests for some evidence of Asian Benevolence with recrimations towards Whites. IE you change the subject. Again, for the cheap seats, no one is refuting that Europeans have been violent. The point you’re missing is that Asians have pissed in the pool pretty badly, too. Human nature is surprisingly universal, and life was held as very cheap in Asia in the past, too. Hell, in many parts of Asia it still is.

So as to the actual subject, would things have been different if Columbus had been Chinese, reciting the litany of sins the Spaniards or English have committed isn’t really helpful. Especially while spinning fantasies and glossing over very real Asian atrocities. The question is, would the Indians and Chinse have hit it off famously? Or would the Chinese say, “Ooops, didn’t know you were here. Beg your pardon- we’ll be leaving now.” Again, I say fat chance. :wink:

Peace…

The question is interesting and can be a grate opportunity for learning from history.
First I would suggest for some to start another thread about Tibet.
The Chines did discover America before the Europeans. And to play with conspiracy theories, many Americans believe that they are being invaded by the Chines continuously.
To be more serious, you can think of the Huns, Mongols, Hungarians, Kuns and many other Asian groups invaded Europe and the Arab world.
Imagine Genghis Khan or Attila finding its way to North America!
Imagine a Great Wall of America from Florida to Nova Scotia to stop the white people.
The Asian economy was based on agriculture in great contrast with Native North America, similar to the European.
No empire have ever existed in North America, unlike the Central American cultures.
The Chines had a written languege, a huge empire and a great abundance of people to feel superior, invade, rule and convert North America the same way as Europeans. And do not forget Chinas main rivels eather. Japan and Korea would have sent invading armies as well. Think of the huge massacres in Asias recent history. Kosaks, Armaniens, Kurds.
I hope these scrambled thougths help you a little.

Thanks for the input guys, I look forward to this read.

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