Hah huh hauh.
Pride
Dan,
Iāve often wondered the same things. Scriptural references to what went on in heaven before the creation of humans do set precedents for how humans should behave. How did Lucifer get pride in heaven? Why did Eden have a snake? The idea that all this happened in some cosmic scheme for the redemption of fallen humans makes no sense at all. Milton describes the Fall as āfelix culpaā, happy guilt, that leads to redemption. But why make me sick in order to heal me? Iād just as soon skip the sick, corrupt, fallen business and be good as God first claimed his creations to be. ( T.S. Eliot thought Milton was FOSāfull of shit; I agree.) Anyway, wars in heaven set the precedent for wars on earth. Pride, existing in heaven excuses pride in us measely human beings. Geeze, Iām a human, not an angel. If I were an angel however, I could war with god, sin in a a place without sin (heaven) and seduce Earth women. Why couldnāt I have been born an angel? 
Milton said in his introduction to "Paradise Lostā that his objective was to ājustify Godās ways to Man.ā Poet A. E Housman responded, āMalt does more than Milton can/ To justify Godās ways to Man.ā
I think you are getting what I am saying . Good for you.
Now I do wondered must I speak in a lecture? As a philosophy graduate soon?
Did Satan have a choice whether to rebel against God or was he created to fall? Do Angels have free will or was that reserved for Man?
Define sin.
Thank you,
Dr. T
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The symbolism of the snake is wisdom, the tempter of humanity. When God made Adam and Eve, they were naked but they were not ashamed and placed them in the garden of Eden, and gave this commandment: You are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for when you eat of it you will surely die". And the story that the tempter the serpent tempted Eve to eat of the fruit. Eve saw that the tree was good for food, pleasant to the eye she ate the fruit and also gave to Adam and he also ate, and both their eyes were opened. As a consequence of their eyes being opened (awakening) they reliazed they were naked (realized their apartness fromm all godly creations. They could no longer remain with all the other unthinking things. They were a threat to God and must be driven out of Eden). We have the snake to thank for opening our eyes to knowledge and truth. if not for the serpent would we be able to know good or evil? sex? happiness and sorrow? How can you know of happiness if there is no sadness, warmness if not knowing the coolness, how do you appreciate light if you donāt experience the dark? health if there is no sickness. I think it would be boring if everything is the same.
for that reason the love of wisdom leads you to dom or lead you back to the road.
But still this does not explain the reason why satan rebeled in the beginning or is that was the intention from cannoizer, foreseen the conflict? That is why the note on lucfier or satan was discarded.
For if the snake tempted eve, who tempted the snake? Under what authority?
The definition of sin, - look at wikipedia, Iām sure they have the definition! Dr. T
Justly,
Snake as wisdom is a Persian or Babylonian idea, which only indicates how much of the Hebrew scriptures were influenced by contemporary, local ideas. That idea, reiterated in āThe Book of Enochā and the Faust legend came from this admixture of ideas that fomented in the ancient middle east. They are not specifically Hebraic doctrines. As for your take on the sickness/health situation, this smacks of Rasputin who preached that one must experience all sins in order to know what they are!!! Letās go out and commit them: otherwise, we are talking through our asses!
Dan,
You donāt have to become anything. Youāre fine the way you are.
Weāll this depends on wether or not you believe that Angels have free will or not.
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If they do this means Satan could have easily rebelled of his own choice.
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However the popular belief is that Angels have no Free will and can do only what God tells them to.
Therefore Satan did not rebel but was ordered by God to rise up against him or to tempt man against God to simulate a choice or the Illusion of free will.
This last is more plausable. And this is also one of those thingās that asking do Angels have free will? Will general get you a āNo thatās why they are jelouse of manā answer or somthing of the like. (God made them to be servantās answer).
Amazing how Humans would put themselves above a creation that by far is superior to them. Would this be pride, Concedence, ego, or vanity? Perhaps all?
But then when contradicting them saying if angels do not have free will than how could Satan rebel? They are quick to change their tune. Or try to explain āwhyā very vaguly and ineptly then procede to beat around the bush, Or change the subject attacking you with who are you to ask questions of your God whom you should love?
But in any case, God= insanity-begets- Man=insanity aplied to reality which=Chaos=God.
There you go full circle.
IF God created man in his image then the above explains all your problems.
If God is reality than reality is Chaos which in turn would be God
thewatcher~
premise 1 . true
premise 2: either true or false ?
conclusion: either true or false?
To find out it is true or not, we must use a conditional proof as Kant did with his Categorical Imperative; which is assumption.
Therefore conclusion can be true, given the right premise. 
The Watcher (Nephalem?),
What religious tripe! If the precedent for human thought is irrational, nothing more can be expected of humans. Benny Hill did the best interpretation of the word assumeāassāuāme; it makes an ass of you and me! How much more vital would be an approach that begins with where humans are coming from and where they are going that does not include speculations of what angels could or could not do. I am not a cosmic being. I should not be judged as anything superior to what is human. What happens to cosmic beings concerns me only in the precedents they set for moral consciousness, which appears to be lacking in heaven and Eden.
these stories are probably mythical representations (for the sake of manās comprehension) of the transcendental.
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(the snake is chosen because of its sinuous body, glistening colors, piercing gaze, sometimes they look like fiery dragons and other guises that can coerce us into action (Gen. 3 described the snake as crafty, subtle, and Eveās action was to eat the fruit) Again, it is the snakeās intelligence to be the tempter.)
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I agree. We must experience all sins in order to know what they are. But we cannot experience them all in one lifetime. Iād like to be a pope, or a president, or an astronaut or a highborn or born humble, sick, healthy, everything. But this topic will lead us to another topic which is reincarnation.
So are you saying we should go kill people and murder, for the sake of knowledge and experience?
come on, I thought you were a good lawyer.
Dan.
We must experience sin, etc. is Rasputinās take, not mine.
Because Rasputin wants to experience sin, he got want he deserves by the Czar spies. Simply it is nature, those who live by sin, die by sin.
restrain is the key. Plato says this not me.
Can anyone here give a definition of sin that could relate to everyone?
A negative action over majority reasoning. If enough are opposed to one action I think itās safe to say that by the power of many you will be crushed like a little bug under their judgement. A god is 'sposed to represent all/ have power beyond all, so if youāre opposing a godās judgement you are, by means, a sinner because youāre minority or less powerful, weāll say.