Very few animals have the ability to even perceive the image they see in their reflection to be their own, and the fact that human’s developed this ability simply means that we have a better understanding of who we are. If we did not look at ourselves in this way; all that it would mean is we would have to go through a learning process of approaching varying people of different attractive personalities in order to get an idea of what people we fit with.
Of course you would still want to find a person who resembles yourself, that is is simply a natural biological process, or as Freud would have you believe, you would still want to find a person that resembles your mother.
If no mirrors existed in the world, perhaps that would be a good thing. It would be another ‘weeding out’ process for people who are both ugly enough not to find a reasonably attractive sexual partner and dumb enough to not learn through trial and error that they are not attractive enough to be with a particular person. Recognizing your image allows decadents to find other decadents to reproduce I suppose.
I think we have to do that anyway… with or without mirrors. Although, we’d probably have to do it a whole lot more without them. It is my view, that this increased amount of social interaction would be beneficial for all individuals concerned ( society as a whole ).
I’m a fairly solitary individual, and sometimes wonder if reflective surfaces give a ‘face’ to my own internal dialogue. And that this reflected-face + internal-dialogue combined produce an ‘artificial entity’ that is perhaps realistic enough to distract me from real-life interactions.
( Am I nuts…? )
P.S. - My opening post was, in the main, inspired by a story I once heard on the radio about the experiences of a personal assistant who was working on the set of a Steven Spielberg movie. This person was asked, before shooting began, to remove all mirrored surfaces from from Spielberg’s trailer.
Ha, so um, you like to stare into the mirror while thinking? I like to look into the mirror and think about my egoistic self, as I try to look good on most occasions, but if you need to see your reflection to think, I’d say you’d be better off finding someone to talk to about this no matter what the means, talk to a pyschiatrist. Online is good, but it is nothing like the real experience. Both are useful in various ways, but you find out more about yourself when talking in person. I consider myself solitary in that I keep few friends and talk to most people only inconsistently,
Anyway, if you honestly think that your personal social inadequacy should warrant removing all mirrors in society so no one else has to suffer like you do, then I’d say that I take your proposition into account, and still disagree, becasue quite frankly, most everyone who uses mirrors does not experience the same phenomenon.
Just use online as your artifical entity btw. Isn’t that what it is anyway?
No… Nor do I ‘need’ to. ( I think you’ve taken all that I said a little too literally )
You think I’m socially inadequate…?.. I think it’s more a case of ‘modern’ society not finding someone like me particularly useful at the moment… [size=84][ Maybe if I should slather some lube between my ass-cheeks and start flapping my wrists. ][/size]
Yes… Yes it is… Lest we forget… Artificial(ish).
Anyway, XXL, I think we have ascertained that you simply see shiny things as being just that, and then you give it no further thought… ‘Further Thought’, isn’t that what a budding philosopher should be striving for…?
Anyone else out there, who has, like me, given some serious contemplation to the impact of mirrors on our lives…?
Haha, maybe because you posted this on the psychology board I am thinking that you are just a man with a bunch of problems that I am trying to solve. My definition on psychology vs. psychiatry is also incomplete, so my deepest apologies for trying to fix problems or something along those lines.
In all seriousness though, human self-identification through sensing oneself through reflection is a rare trait. Unless your philosophical position is one that desires to makes us more like animals, I’d have to say that your criticism of mirrors is unwarranted. Perhaps you want man to trust his instinctual drive more and not have to depend on reflection in some aspect, but many would say it is a natural condition that humans know their reflection and not a wholly learned response. And since we are on the psychology board, what would it mean to the narcissist if you took away his reflection aka his only sense of self.
Still though, your question that mirrors somehow have a negative impact on society does relate back to yourself somehow. Anyone who claims to be a philospher, in truth, is just an incredibly sophisticated insecure person and your signature explains the rest. To take away reflection, though, would not mean any sort of progress for humanity though, and maybe your desire to have people be ‘nicer’ shows that your idea of nice could, in fact, be the wrong one.
I’m tired and lately I’ve had a hard time even trying to put an exact finger on what I’ve been trying to say, so I’ll try to sum my thoughts up with this. I basically think your problem with mirrors is mere nitpicking and such questions come down to personal questions that a philosopher must make for himself. And to think because you do not like mirrors makes it a problem, well then I think I may just have met a Kant follower (in an inverted sense I suppose). I do have a friend, Chris, who’s philosophical disposition caused him to swear off any form of the internet thats sole purpose is talk to others aka AIM, facebook, messageboards etc. While I find his personal crusade admirable, I also pity him because he could never find such a healthy environment for discussion such as this. So maybe his swearing off of the internet could help him in some ways, but in others, quite possibly more important ways, it can hurt him. Maybe if you quit using mirrors, you would be missing out on part of your self-identification.
Such a lenghthy response would usually not warrant what I referred to as nitpicking earlier, so maybe I am wrong and this is a deep philosophical question worth talking about. If more people than just you and me join, I suppose that it may just be then.
I strongly disagree… I think it is a totally learned response.
The earliest man-made mirrors known, date back only 5000 years. Before that, there was only ‘still water on a moonlit night’… which, if you think about it, would limit your view to only your head, shoulders and the starry sky.
[size=84]( that means something ) [/size]
Progress for humanity…?
You mean like the ‘atomic bomb’ ?.. Hasn’t ‘that’ been put back on the shelf.
But what would I ‘gain’ in ‘group-identification’…? [size=84]( For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction ). [/size]
mirrors are a part of nature, I think humans for a long time have recoqnized their reflection in water for a long time, and most humans eventually by just being out in nature get an idea for what they look like.
I assume that some animals also figure this out when drinking water etc, and I assume that some animals also don’t.
Mirrors are tools for not just seeing what you look like physically, but also for brushing your teeth, flossing etc . . . maybe another question could be, “If you spend A LOT of time in front of a mirror can THAT alter how you look at yourself and your life somehow?”
Have really mirrors changed us all that much? Doesn’t it depend on the disposition of the person looking in the mirror in the first place? One person may look in the mirror and see themselves as the most beautiful thing in all creation, while any other person who looks upon their face sees them as incredibly ugly. At the same time, someone who actually is perceived as incredibly beautiful by the rest of the world could look upon their reflection in disgust. Now this initial opinion might lead the “beautiful” person to spend more time among other people because they don’t like their reflection, while it may make the first case shy away form the rest of humanity. but this begs the question, are people’s opinions formed by their reactions to society, or instead do they form them themselves prior to interaction and then this initial set of circumstances changes how they interact later?
I would have put “interactions with” society… but yes, and starting at a very early age, with family members first and formost.
[size=84]( is that the same as society? )[/size]
And yes. Your right. It does all depend on the lifelong, complex positive/negative matrix of experience, which is different for everybody.
[i]P.S. - Today, I’ve decided to drape an item of clothing over my television screen. When turned off, it created a convex, dark-mirrored surface which was distracting me. Prior to today, I have regularly caught myself turning my head to glance at it.
A convex, dark-mirrored surface makes you [ him? ] look small, distant and dark (obviously).
[size=84]( Have I ‘killed’ him…? — If I remove my improvised curtain, will he return…? Where has he been…? Who am him…? )[/size][/i]
For one to never see themselves, no water should exist within this world. If a chance rain puddle would not reveal one’s face, then one would not notice anything they do not like about themselves. The human need for change is immutable… it is a constant.
Others have already brought up this obvious fact, but here is my take on it anyway:
I don’t understand how this could ever happen given the fact that the world has many natural mirrors, the best example being a still pool of water that we would drink from.
All animals and man have seen their reflection and all respond to it in some way so we are all somewhat cognoscente of it. Many animals use this reflection as a tool to detect predators while their drinking. I can’t think of a single animal that while drinking in a pool of water would ignore the reflection of a predator sneaking up behind them, can you? The difference in man is simply Ego in my estimation.
Yet, you named only one… ( the only one, as far as I know ).
I bet you can’t name another " natural " mirror.
Also, if you look a the " Mirror Test " entry on Wiki you’ll see that very few animals understand the reflection they see of themselves. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
Inside of a large seashell, Gold, Pearls and other metal ors if polished or even some rock formations with shiny surfaces or crystalline structure big enough.
Just off the top of my head, I think about it some more.
No thanks, I’m not here to satisfy your conditions, I was responding to the OP statement. I’ll only go so far to qualify such a statement and I’m not the least interested in your credulity.
[size=84]" Why can’t some people admit when they’ve made a mistake ?"[/size]
Anyway, I’ve been doing some more experiments today. - The main one involved placing a mirror on the ground facing up towards the ceiling. - Everyone should try this - . Place the mirror in the orientation I have described, then, with your eyes closed, get down on all fours and hang your head over it. Now, open your eyes and give a rating as to ‘how surprised you are’ to see your own face staring back up at you. Repeat the experiment with a mirror in an upright (normal / unnatural) orientation.