ILP rules and the permaban of Lys?

[AutSider]

@Arcturus Descending

Aussenseite

I can admire you for your pro-active stance and activity. But tell me, weren’t there rules even within that? I used to protest, peacefully (we aren’t all fanatics) outside of an abortion clinic and one of the rules is not to go within a certain distance, feet of the door. Now, if we had done that, or charged in there, or deliberately restrained the women from going in there, we would have been hauled off before a judge and perhaps go to jail. I didn’t really see any point in going to jail, especially, being that I have children, and what purpose would that have served and in what way would i have been making any reasonable statement by doing that? So, rules are important and I would say that more then just some (as you put it) are important. I wonder what ilp would look like to a person coming in for the first time - if most everyone in here for a large part, simply copied and pasted, copied and pasted, text from other posters, even that text not being from a banned poster.

I do agree with you in that certain rules need to be changed. As far as the society which is ILP, part of this society could care less whether Lyssa is banned or not, myself included though I did say I have no problem with her returning; part of this society believes that because she broke particular rules, she needs to be banned. And then there is the part who disagree with her banning. We’ve been over this before, but tell me, what do you think should be (hate that word, should) the tipping point when it comes to breaking a rule? If someone deliberately flaunts the fact of not caring about a rule, whether or not people think it’s fair or not, wouldn’t you say that it is the responsibility of that person to accept the consequences? Doesn’t the behavior itself dictate the attitude of that person?

According to the excerpt which I put in here earlier, Carleas does have a perfect right to ban her whether or not some people agree with that decision… whether or not they agree or disagree with what constitutes the reality of what can be or cannot be posted. She acted in a way that was against the rule. That is the reality based on her behavior and the Rules. Let’s say that everyone came in here and broke that rule, spamming the forum with the text of a banned user. Then some might have the right to think and perhaps rightly so, that it’s an unjust law but then again my thinking may not be right here. The bottom line here is that the forum belongs to Carleas even though in one respect one can say it also belongs to the people and there really is not such a terrible degree of unreasonable or unfair rules in here as a few may think.

From the time I was small and kicked out of catholic schools…I understand this. I grew up in a catholiic orphanage so I perfectly understand how unjust or unfair a rule can seem to be and sometimes is. At the same time, being an adult now and having grown up, for the most part, lol I can now see the part some rules do play for a smooth-running environment, like ilp. I was also a rebel and I even ran away once but they found me and brought me back. Who knows what might have happened to me had they not found me. Of course, I have never been able to see the wisdom of being hit with rulers. That did hurt my knuckles. And when I ran out, my corporal punishment was such that I felt a really hard and hurtful paddle on my derriere. So I can see where some rules are justified and some aren’t and where some consequences for our actions need to be changed or softened.

You think of ilp as a dictatorship? You think that because there has to be some rhyme and reason, some censorship, that that qualifies as a dictatorship?! Go to a country where there is a dictatorship and come back and tell us what you think - then. Take another look at the posts in here.

What would you call Know Thyself? Ah, yes I know there is no banning over there but I may be wrong. I think there have been people kicked out (and I think that in some cases it might have been a good idea) but in other cases, I would be curious to know why. But there is a dundgeon there, right, where someone can still reside and still post provided others go there to visit on visiting days. I may also be wrong about that. I wonder what Socrates would think if he took a look there or especially Aristotle. What would he think? I wonder what both would say in comparing ilp to Know Thyself - oh, boy, how I could wonder about that. I would be really interested in knowing that. Maybe I could hunt up some real philosophers outside there somewhere and ask them to come and take a look-see or to join up for awhile. I really wonder what their conclusions might be, how they would critique the places. You might think I’m being a little ludicrous or silly here but I really do wonder and I may just give that some thought.

As far as the dust and the roaches being under the floorboards - not to call Lyssa a roach, not at all, but figuratively speaking, perhaps one can see her deviating so far from a rule that others have abided by - as her being the roach which has created all of the dust which has cropped up in here. Again, I’m not calling her a roach.

I don’t really think that any of this is going to be resolved the way everyone wants it since we all see with different eyes but it doesn’t really matter at this point. The bottom line - look before you leap and think before you act and think before you say yes to others and think before you abide by their standards. If we can’t do this, we have to accept the consequences, and why wouldn’t we since we were so fervent in believing we knew what we were doing. We all have to pay the piper in one way or the other.

[Mr_Reasonable]

@MagsJ

@mr reasonable

You’ve got to recognize the distinction between these 2 kinds of statements.

“You’re wrong because of X, and X is demonstrable in this or that way.”

As opposed to,

“These cretin imbecile infantile feminine monkey fucking assholes are wrong about X, because based on loose statistics, gross generalizations, and cherry picked historical references I have concluded such and therefore you’ll all a bunch of weakling worthless fucks and you’re what’s wrong with the world, and I"m better than all of you and if you disagree then it’s because you’re stupid. Also, you’re a shit smear and a brown cow and whatever other 3rd grade name calling shit I can come up with.”

You would think that stating the situation in the most logical way you can should make realisation hit home, wouldn’t you?

It’s a comprehension issue. Sometimes people think someone is a good writer because the writer is hard to read, and they think that he’s smarter than them because hard to read stuff must be really powerful complex stuff. But sometimes the hard to readness of it is just a bunch of window dressing to try and obfuscate a view thats actually simple, and retarded. Then other times a person doesn’t like a certain writer because they are clear, concise, to the point and logical…and those kinds of writers are hard to disagree with, and if you disagree with them then it’s a hard thing to cope with simple truth right in fronf of you.

[AutSider]

Just a thought that occurred to me seeing the new and already locked thread about tolerance…

Couldn’t everybody who was bothered by Lys simply use the ignore function on her? Since there are obviously more people who want her here, than those who do not…

I know this won’t change the decision, but it is just another indicator that this is about censoring a certain type of ideas, not a specific person because they are disturbing.

[Carleas]

Blocking is useful when a particular user has a problem with another user. It is not the solution for spam, nor is it the solution for someone acting as a proxy for a banned user. Since Lys’ ban is based on her spamming and acting as a proxy for another user, the option for other users to block her does not impugn the legitimacy of her ban.

[Arminius]

@Arbiter of Change

@Lyssa

Meanwhile pedophiles, liars, bored dickheads continue to chatter all over the forum doing anything but philosophy… He has no problems with ILP becoming a Urinal with the piss of pedophiles and other retards… He has no problem when idiots champion Marx and who not, in whose name many became dead; discussing such a “criminal” is fine, but not Satyr. Satyr is a horrible criminal on life-sentence.

@apaosha

The only people who have ever been banned on KT were pedophiles or stalkers of other users. You have to be seriously disruptive of the forum or of other users real lives to warrant permanent banning. Erik, for example, who threatened to cut off Satyr’s son’s face, or to expose Lyssa’s identity, or what he thought was her identity, because he’s an idiot. Or Mannequin, a homosexual who is obsessed with Satyr and called his house.
Indeed there is a threshold that we will tolerate, but our methods in dealing with those who pass that threshold are transparent and reasonable, unlike ILP. In reality we are infinitely more tolerant than the people here and it is mainly because what we are called upon to tolerate is infinitely less threatening to us than Lys reposting some of Satyr’s quotes.

Yes, that’s right. Reposting of quotes is more threatening than actual death threats and stalkers. This is why I think it is at some level futile to discuss this subject because at the core the mods here are fundamentally unreasonable and hypocritical, one expects honesty and rationality in turn because that is what one offers.
I understand that it is bewildering and frustrating to logically address statements made by certain people only to have them immediately redefine the argument and redirect into another subject or excuse… but as I said in the previous post it becomes necessary to de-invest the self in what you can’t fix. Use the place and the people, as examples, as learning material, as whatever. Show the spectators what is occurring here. Demonstrate reality, uncover reality, reveal reality. Reality is there for all to see.
But the mods here won’t admit they’re wrong. Even if you back them into a corner all you’ll get is silence and maybe a ban, until this blows over. That’s how it works. Point is, they’re irrelevant. Do it for the others. Don’t think of it as a contest, don’t expect to win. There is nothing to win, and there is no one to contest with. Think of it as an exploration. A safari.
You will be offered excuses as to why Lys can’t post here, or why Satyr can’t post here. They will be pure bullshit, but it will be up to you to figure out why they are bullshit and to explore the reasoning and motivations behind them.

Who administrates and who moderates on the webforum “Know Thyself”?

[surreptitious57]

I have only just joined both sites so cannot comment with any degree of authority but I like new forums for it is always a different experience because each one is unique in its own right. There does seem to be bad blood between the two sites and particular individuals but I have zero desire to add to that as that is not how I roll. I am far more interested in the informed opinions of those wiser than me on all matters philosophical and non philosophical also. Already see that Fixed Cross here and Satyr at Know Thyself have fundamentally different worldviews to mine which I openly welcome. And from reading Satyrs own words over there he seems to be an intelligent man and wise beyond his years. But he can be incredibly offensive to his peers though they seem to take it much as he gives it and as someone who believes in absolute free speech my self cannot complain about anyones discourse. I will only be posting over here for reasons of practicality as there are only so many forums one can be active on even if you do have twenty four hours free every day as I do. But I shall still read Know Thyself on a regular basis. Apparently not much philosophy is discussed on this forum in spite of its name so will try in my own insignificant way to add to that deficiency. As I am genuinely interested in serious debate and so hopefully can contribute material of substance. Now there is no more I can say at this point in time other than to wish both sites all the best