what can people know about god? nothing
Hi Trevor,
I agree with you, but many people are blissfully enlightened and feel that they have the only path to Nirvana. I don’t believe that God is judgmental or only from the human spirit, so that leaves me contented. My life and religious philosophy? You get what you give.
Soooo, if for some bizarre reason, God IS judgmental or (in my wildest dreams) only for human spirituality - I’ve got it covered. I won’t be high up on the halo-chain, but won’t be visiting purgatory either.
I have adored my animals so much that I privately wish the hereafter to be a Dog Heaven. They will crown me Her Bessiness of Canine upon my arrival. 
i’m catholic and believe in god, but i don’t think of faith as anything besides a
bias when discussing philosophical issues.
As theology is part of philosophy,
you can legitimately ask, is there a god?
The answer is short and sweet, no.
If you understand the several arguments for god,
you can also understand why they fail.
One. Existence proves god.
answer: uh, no. There can be several clear
rational explanations for existence that do
not depend upon a deity.
Two: people have seen/talked to god which proves
his existence.
answer: Seeing/ talking to god does not show us
the existence of god. It tells us about the person
who saw/talked to god, but does not tell us about god.
I recently wrote about my drug interaction, whereas I thought
I saw a ufo, I thought there were burglars in the house,
among other things, but they were the result of mixing
two drugs. If people see/talked to god, it could be the result of
drugs, of hallucations, of wishful thinking, of outright lies.
People seeing/talking to god says something about the person,
not about god.
three: god is proven, by us having a thought of a perfect being.
A thought that exist outside of experience and thus must be
true.
Answer: I can have thoughts of a unicorn or of Gulliver’s travels,
where wild and fantastic creatures exist, but that does not say
anything about what actually exist. I can have thoughts
of having a billion dollars in my pocket, but alas,
thinking it does not make it so. Thinking about something does
not create existence.
Four: God is proven by the bible.
Answer: Just because the bible says god exist, does not mean
god exist. But you might say, the bible says so.
God exist because the bible says so, is a circular argument.
It keeps coming back on itself and thus proves nothing.
But the bible says 500 people saw the resurrected christ.
The 4 books of the new testament were written more
then 30 after the death of jesus and the latest book, matthew,
I think, was written more then 60 years after the death of jesus.
In this modern age, more then 40 years after the fact, we still have
books written about the assassination of JFK. Books that conflict
with each other. And we have video tape of the assassination,
we have eyewitness and we have audio tapes, we have a
multitude of analysis of the assassination, and still what do
we know? Not much, even the identity of the
assassin/assassins is still in doubt.
Not a single book or even two can create the existence
of jesus as god. And a single book cannot create the existence
of god.
Those are the basic arguments for god and each
fails for the reasons cited.
Conclusion: god does not exist.
Kropotkin
You cannot prove that which comes from faith.
E’er since by faith I saw the stream
Thy flowing wounds supply
Redeeming love has been my theme
And shall be till I die"
-Charles Haddon-
“Treat the other man’s faith gently; it is all he has to believe with. His mind was created for his own thoughts, not yours or mine.”
-Henry S. Haskins-
“Whoso loves, believes the impossible.”
-Elizabeth Barret Browning-
“It’s faith in something and enthusiasm for something that makes a life worth living.”
-Oliver Wendell Holmes-
Oh, yea… what about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. You simply can’t just go messing with people’s faith like that!
i don’t care to proove God as i judge this of using what you know to be as i am truthful to the truth i prefer to proove it to myself in thinking what i feel but i hear God asking me to say He is forcing me to answer in all the devils that i can’t stand well than i say God existance is prooven as it explains all fears and wills and needs you can directly related to Him as you hear him but also in thinking all the words He gave quoran and the bibles being all true to what your mind saw of Him and to all the facts happening on earth
Hi Trevor and Bessy,
You might like a line in my poem “The Last Why”.
“God is not in religious thread.
When wound up in it, God is dead.”
I am not convinced that God exists but I live as if that is a possibility because I cannot comprehend getting up in the morning without that slight hope.http://www.thelastwhy.ca/poem
Ah, the final place the faithful go when challenged.
We have faith and so we have proof of god.
If you only had faith, you too would know god existed.
I engage in philosophy for a reason.
I think life is about the rational understanding of
of both man and the universe. If we engage in faith,
we use faith to understand the universe, we betray
the fundamental fact of the world we live in.
Man (so far as we know) is the only creature able to
engage in rational thought. In fact, that might be a
working definition of a human being, One who can
engage in rational thought. If we fail to think rationally
about the universe, we fail the millions of humans who have
spent the better part of 4 millions years, escaping animal
instincts and animal behavior. Millions of people who
by bit and pieces, learned to think rationally about
the universe. An act of faith is an act of betrayal to
the our past. We turn our back on the one thing that
makes us human, our reason. I accept science, not because
as some claim it is a faith, but because science is a understanding
of the universe that is rational, it does not exist in faith.
Some have claimed that the belief in, say gravity,
shows a faith of a different kind. It does not.
Theories such as gravity and evolution do not require faith
to exist, but facts and evidence. And when facts and evidence
change, so do the theories of gravity and evolution.
The only constant I can find in the universe is change.
And it is only by science, philosophy, history can we explain
change. Change as a rational explanation can only come
from the mind of man, not his heart. And faith is a matter of
the heart. Animals understand matters of the heart but cannot
understand matters of the head. Humans being are humans being
because we are thinking creatures. We exist with rational
thought, logic, science, and philosophy because we
the next stage of evolution. Not necessarily a better stage,
because evolution does not demand new and improve,
it only demands adaptations to new environments.
And rational, logical thought is the best way to adapt
to a new environment, not with changed claws or
better fur, but with thought. We are masters of the earth not
because of faith, but because of rationally thought.
And the next change will not occur because of faith, but
because of rational thought. We have scaled mountains, flown
to the moon, created complicated theories of the most basic
element of the universe, atoms, not with faith, but with
science and thought. Faith cannot lead us into the future,
faith can only chain us to the past. If we are to have a future,
it must be with science and rational thought, not faith.
Kropotkin
Intertrajectorectical Trialectics. That’s what you need, man. Here, I’ll show you how it works.
Alright, so you’ve asked if a negative can exist, because your premise assumes that “nothing” is what can be known about the subject you are arguing can’t exist, “god.” So, if it happened that god did exist, you would be accidentally refering to god when you argued against the existence of a god which as the premise indicates is “nothing” which can be known. But wait. If I knew God existed it would be no longer possible to ask the question, so, it is necessary for god to exist in order for me to not know he exists and therefore ask the question. This would be a necessary prerequisite for this case.
Now we’ve only taken one step forward…but two steps back. At this point, it can be induced that if god existed, god would also know that we have come to the conclusion that god has made it neccessary that we ever only question that he exists rather than knowing that he exists, for if we did we could ask no question and, well, frankly none of this is happening right now.
I doubt that.
So, god must know that when we ask the question: “what can people know about god,” we are also positing a negative which, according to the good graces of the logic which god has given us, does not work.
Now the irony thickens. So god has made it so we will ask a question that isn’t possible, but not only possible, absolutely necessary as well, to know the impossibility that god ever be known and further the absurdity of the possibility of asking the impossible question of god’s existence.
I hope you are writing this stuff down, dude.
There are a million and one philosophies about “God”…
…and then there’s mine.
So what we have here is not a circular fallacy, however much it appears to be so. It is quite proper to suggest that god cannot be known and that also it is known that god exists. It is most certainly not a direct contradiction, because if god existed…this would be the way it was.
the question is why? why would you want to understand the universe you are living in? anything you will say on that topic would be as much you are truthful to your need you are talking of the necessary adaptation to any environment your mind feel in be careful here how you jump over the truth of needs replacing it by another motivation your desire to make you are lying than in all the thoughts you would say because of your denial of their sources that is how i say yes let’s make but you have to be true to what make this desire at the first place so all what you do will give all men avoid to talk about needs as a normal way to be true this is the devil face ruling souls on false truth of unexistant strength that stop a lot your abilities to see that is how they will remain blinds i am prooving to you how your heart is the key for a scientific look but also i have a deeper reason this was just for your devil the reason is the power that you will give to the being you want him to make ruled by his true desires in needs aware for happiness or mostly survival heart is also the end as it is the start in what it shall lead you to experience love the only valuable feeling alive so if you ask the why you will find yourself in another bifurcation which is the truth
détrop:
Now we’ve only taken one step forward…but two steps back. At this point, it can be induced that “if” god existed, god would also know that we have come to the conclusion that god has made it necessary that we ever only question that he exists rather than knowing that he exists, for if we did we could ask no question and, well, frankly none of this is happening right now.
K: You already assume god to exist by saying “god would also know”.
that is faith at work. I begin with, “What proof of god is there?”
That is simple enough. I don’t need all other the stuff you threw in.
I just have to examine the facts, the evidence. There is no
evidence. Even within the limits of a ontological argument, you
cannot prove god exist.
Detrop: So, god must know that when we ask the question: “what can people know about god,” we are also positing a negative which, according to the good graces of the logic which god has given us, does not work.
K: again, assuming evidence not admitted. You start from the premise
of “god must know that”. The very question you ask, has already assume
god to exist. And still you have no evidence that god exist, just
assumptions.
D: Now the irony thickens. So god has made it so we will ask a question that isn’t possible, but not only possible, absolutely necessary as well, to know the impossibility that god ever be known and further the absurdity of the possibility of asking the impossible question of god’s existence.
K: Argument by confusing the matter. You are trying to
tie up the question in confusion and then you claim that the
confusion shows us god exist. Does god exist? The evidence for.
the evidence against. That is the matter at hand. not your attempts
to confuse the matter.
D: So what we have here is not a circular fallacy, however much it appears to be so. It is quite proper to suggest that god cannot be known and that also it is known that god exists. It is most certainly not a direct contradiction, because “if” god existed…this would be the way it was."
K: it is a circular argument. God exist because he says he exist.
Or because we are confuse by the matter, god must exist.
Not at all. The confusion exist because you started with,
god exist, instead of asking “what is evidence that
shows us god exist” Or perhaps this, “Does god exist?”
and then moving on to the evidence and facts. Asking the right
question. That is 90% of the battle. You failed to asked the
right question because within your question was already the
answer you were looking for.
Kropotkin
you don’t listen or even answer what i said if you want to proove the truth of God you have to ask your questions in truth when you say what proof i have that God exist in so many shoes they don’t believe in him you are not being true you are confusing them all without saying one single truth of yours why do you want to proove the existance of God when you will say He is not it doesn’t make sense if you don’t feel his presence why do you want to proove his existance? it would be more true if you feel prooving he is not but here again you can’t confuse so many feelings of others you don’t see to say on their behalf you are faking as lying making the devil who never say
iman: you don’t listen or even answer what i said if you want to proove the truth of God you have to ask your questions in truth when you say what proof i have that God exist in so many shoes they don’t believe in him you are not being true you are confusing them all without saying one single truth of yours why do you want to proove the existance of God when you will say He is not it doesn’t make sense if you don’t feel his presence why do you want to proove his existance? it would be more true if you feel prooving he is not but here again you can’t confuse so many feelings of others you don’t see to say on their behalf you are faking as lying making the devil who never say"
K: I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but what you wrote
doesn’t make sense to me. Perhaps rewrite it and I might
be able to understand your point. As of right now, I don’t
understand your point.
Kropotkin
i said you are the devil
iman: i said you are the devil"
K: Oh, ok. Ummmm. I have been called worse, recently
by my wife. To call someone the devil, is to assume
they actually believe in god and the devil. I don’t.
Now is there evil in the universe? Yep, they
are called young republicans. As for calling me names,
that’s life in the big city.
Kropotkin
In my (very humble) opinion, it is impossible for us to be able to prove the existence of God, cos that would defeat the point. The point of God is faith and trust, it’s a leap of faith. If we all had lttle store tags saying “made by God” there’d be no point, cos there would be no leap pf faith, cos everyone would just know. That doesn’t mean I necessarily believe God exists, it just means that as far as I can see, if God did exist, (or at least if the God of C.T. existed) then it is necessary that it’s impossible to prove his existence.
sara
and if we can prove god does exist, then what??
god has reacted as any dictator has, bide by my rules or else.
so then god is no better than we Humans, really.
if we can actually prove that God exists, the everyone believes… everyone goes to heaven, the whole point is lost…
but then if God is actually all-powerful… then it just wouldn’t happen
NO, not everyone.
Naturally
why not everyone?