in thus spoke zarathustra

could the referance to the last men sleeping perhps be a further critisism on the metaphisical thought that sort of places a deficit of importance on liveing life for life as apposed to living life for the after life??? I wanted to ask this in my lecture but feel blind talking in class,

What chapter can it be found in?

the chairs of virtue…I think , I checked it out over the weekend , but my brian is scrambled at the moment.

neitzsche is a classics scholar. he does a really really good interpertation of ancient greek thought.

the ref to sleep is taken from the ancients, and it just means an inability to understand the Truth. so i do think your interpertation is right, in that when a philosopher says others aren’t awake he means others doesn’t believe in what he does.

The closest thing I see to “the chairs of virture” is “the teachers of virture”, in the first part second chapter.

I skimmed it to jog my memory, and i don’t remember them ever referring to last men here…So I am led to believe that this is the wrong chapter.

But all in all you accessment is perfect for this chapter, so I am led to think that I am in the right chapter…

If you want to sleep good, then you must become virtuous, and by becoming virtuous you become arbitrary and nonsensicle, and weak.
It seems that if you want to live a “good little life”, then you should go ahead and beleive in these arbitrary virtues, and afterlifes…But only the weak would forfeit themselves to this…And thus they go under…

They live their awake lifes in order to go to sleep…The live their real life in order to seek the afterlife…And thus they are arbitrary/nonsensicle, and will go under.

you right, nietzsche’s passage about those who live to “sleep well” is in reference to those who live only to secure themselves a good “afterlife”. you should have brought that up in class cause that’s an a very important part to understand about Zarathustra

(and in some translations the section is titled “chairs of virtue” and in others it titled “teachers of virtue”)

here’s some more ‘evidence’ from the chapter ‘of the chairs of virtue’ to support these interpretations:

Peace with God and thy neighbour: good sleep will have it so. And peace even with the neighbor’s devil! Else it will haunt thee in the night.
Honour and obedience to the magistrates, and even to crooked magistrates! good sleep will have it so. It is my fault that power liketh to walk on crooked legs?
He shall be called by me the bese herdsman who leadeth his sheep unto the greenest meadow: that accordeth well with good sleep.

I am also pleased with the poor in spirit: they promote sleep. Blessed are they, especially if one always yieldeth to them.

i especially agree that Nietzsche is using the word “sleep” in the ‘ancient greek sense’ you mentioned, trix… as in Heraclitus’ fragment 7:

“They [the sleepwalkers] are at odds with the logos, with which above all they are in continuous contact, and the things they meet everyday appear strange to them.” They live in an irrational manner, at odds with the logos, even though they are familiar with it each waking moment. Because they lack understanding of the logos everyday things appear strange to them; that is, what makes perfect sense to one who grasps the logos seems strange to the many who fail to grasp the logos.

anyone know off hand of any other ancient greek examples of “sleepiness” being likened to ignorace or a lack of understanding?

What is up with all these “eths”…Who’s the translator for your copy?

it says:

Translated by Alexander Tille

T. Fisher Unwin
Paternoster Square

Walter Kauffman is the man when it comes to nietzsche translations.

damn right