“Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”
What do you think of this issue, or the quote above?
This obviously depends on what you mean by enlightenment, but keep it vague if you want and just talk about what your particular idea of enlightenment might imply as real world consequences for the person who becomes enlightened.
Enlightenment is about the state of minds we occupy.
It can have real consequences to our actions, but it is my suspicion that the more genuine it is the less it will have.
Ofcourse, this can depend.
A person who is ‘normal’ will be leading a stable life, and so enlightenment shouldn’t really change that mode of life.
A person who is seriously troubled, living in an existential crisis, might have their day to day activities disrupted by their state of mind.
Achieving greater enlightenment may resolve some of these issues, causing them to act in a more stable manner.
The Bhagavad Gita has at times been described as the first recorded psychoanalytical therapy.
But when it comes right down to it the biggest thing that enlightenment changes is within ourselves, within our perspectives, not in the way we act.
According to several mystical traditions one form of enlightenment is to no longer see our true self as being our body, or the way we interact with the world. Pre-enlightenment we will take ourselves to be our body and think our self as directing this. Post-enlightenment we will no longer take ourselves to be our body, but the body will still be directed by the bodily inclinations.
Another form of enlightenment is to see our self as being one component in a greater whole, not much different to how our gut bacteria is a greater component in our bodily whole. To see the points at which we draw lines between different objects as being arbitrary (though created as a necesary reaction as part of an evolutionary process). In other words, seing our self as being the Universe in it’s entirety, and our consciousness as one little speck that has come to exist that is aware of this overall Universality. Such enlightenment could potentially lead to a form of fatalism in which no action is taken and the individual lies down on the ground in awed contemplation of what they truly are until they die. Eventually though, they will take action, because there is no reason not to.
When it comes to enlightenment being the development of perspectives, this will inevitably involve some change to mood. So while it may not directly inform action, it may indirectly alter the types of reaction that the individual experiences.
What is more, many people who have experienced some form of enlightenment will attempt to convey this to others. They might still chop wood and carry water, but they may also become a lay preacher for their own method and conclusions.
I think it is inevitable that many will do this, as when we find something we find amazing, we have an innate altruistic desire to gift others with an appreciation of it.
So, I would say enlightenment can heal and stabilise, it can instigate new ways of interacting with the world (e.g. meditation), and it can imbue a missionary spirit.
Personally, I enlightened myself out of existence, transcended transcendence, and the entity conveying this is somewhat akin to an answering machine message. 
I see enlightenment as knowledge. To gain the knowledge of something you didn’t know or understand. In this way the littlest thing from gossip to a study class will change you as your thoughts and views are always adapting. Yet to view enlightenment as some kind of major mystical change a deeper understanding of God(s) or nature is something I can warm to, though it seems to suggest that enlightenment is something that will detach you from the physical, were I feel there should be a balance.
You are right to say that enlightenment can be the growth of awareness about even the smallest details.
The enlightenment I was speaking of is what we might call a higher order.
It is a pattern that links the small details, or a pattern that links patterns.
You will know when you find something like that, it will be like a blossoming in your mind and you will feel temporarily high and probably energetic.
This is, I believe, because connections in the brain are being made that naturally cause the release of certain chemicals not too dissimilar to some drugs.
after enlightenment you will see in light. you will see the light in things. everything will glow, and you wont want to win.
The process of spiritual cultivation is very practical.
A
HOW CAN WE CULTIVATE OUR “SPIRITS”, Angel, that’s the question.
Cultivation means nurture. Nurture it. Give it water (wisdom), give it light (mental focus), give it soil (be practical).
A
Enlightenment is the gun shot to begin a rather extensive marathon of tradeoffs… .at least enlightment in the technological sense you’re talking about.
Every tool has its pros and cons.
Enlightenment makes a person more stupid then before.
Because they will persuade themselves they are better then everyone, because I have this enlkightenment. They try to comprehend something they don’t understand, a mindless game of chase.
It would have been better if there was no enlightenment
end of discussion
Dan, absurdly logical, says:
[i]Enlightenment makes a person more stupid then before.
Because they will persuade themselves they are better then everyone, because I have this enlkightenment. They try to comprehend something they don’t understand, a mindless game of chase.
It would have been better if there was no enlightenment
end of discussion[/i]
agree…I don’t even know how a person could ever conceive that…
I think Enlightenment is a personal conquest of wisdom, peace of mind and equilibrium.
How exactly I would define this equilibrium is the thing…
kinda of a mixture of absolute revolt against everything which tries to enslave you (and against which you know you can react) and a complete absence of reaction against the things which are and can’t not-to be.
The above doesn’t sound like a description of enlightenment to me at all.
Both in the Eastern and Socratic traditions wisdom starts with the admission that we know nothing, and though it may at times deviate from this course, it eventually leads back to a more profound understanding of this exact same thing.
Forms of ‘enlightenment’ that would specifically go against your assertion that the enlightened person thinks themself better than others: Understanding of the subjective, and that each person is entirely correct in relation to their own experiences; and a self-definition that includes those other people.
noneedforaname, I guess Danny was just joking.
With some of the things that people earnestly say, it is hard to tell…