Insanity scuff-scuff-scuffs down the street...

Every single day I am forced to be deal with local insanity; a great deal of my fellow teenagers are easily and by far insane.
Take Charlie for example.
Charlie and I both have grown up in a medium sized town with no dangers or troubles that are violent in nature. Nothing besides a bunch of intoxicated teenagers.
Charlie comes from German, French, and English blood. His hair is a dirty blonde and eyes are a sky of blue.
Charlie walks down the street with a radio to his head. “I’m the baddest homie yo ever done see…” eminates from the speakers directly into Charlies skull. His pants are hardly hanging onto his legs. His t-shirt advertises the logo of a beer company that makes “40’s”. He has paid at least as much attention to his shoes as a woman does to her facial make-up.

  • I shall mention here, for the sake of truth in comedy and what repressed feelings can contribute to, that when I was 4 and Charlie was 5, he tried to kiss me and made further homosexual advances on me. Save to say, that for the rest of his life, Charlie has held a special hatred towards me for rejecting him. -
    Anyway, the point is this: Charlie, now the age of 18, is insane. He has convinced himself that he is a “hard mothafucka” from a tough neighborhood. He has become so concerned with his image, of what others percieve of him, that he has fooled himself into being a stereo-type of a “homie”, “gangstah” etc… He has even gone as far to claim that he is part black.
    What I want to know is this: How is this boy now a mans age any different from the fellow in a straight jacket claiming that he is Jesus Christ?

And there are many more of them besides Charlie. A whole slew of them went to a recent high school of mine. A whole generation of them idoloize “gangstahs” and the “gangstah cash money life” and fantasize to be that. Maybe half actually strive to be that, but the majority just fantasize. They scuffle down the street, bopping thier heads to some guy bragging about himself.
They are now coming of age to have children; many already have children.
What of that! Insanity being allowed to breed insanity!
I have been in the houses of the mad people who are raising children and, my stars, it is bleak. They are raised on television and the fantasy “gangstah life”; on poor food for the body and the mind. What ambition will these children have? What role models will they possibly eek out?

Charlie is wilfully deluding himself that his gangster fantasy is real, and it is likely - with time - that reality will bite. He is just on one extreme of a widespread “ghetto fabulous” cultural trend, and given that he is surrounded by images of gangsters/gangster music etc all day every day, we might be able to see why he acts as he does (we still think he’s stupid, though). However, someone in an asylum who is suffering from some sort of personality delusion - I assume this is what you mean - is likely to believe that he actually is whoever he thinks he is. There is no wilful delusion that can be easily reversed as the ‘sufferer’ matures - it is a genuine illness. Charlie, reacting with confusion to the end of his adolescence has adopted a path of bravado (covering for homosexuality?!) for some reason known only to him. It could be insecurity; it could be over-confidence. Only he knows. But give him time and he’ll see the light (unless he gets thrown into an asylum, of course, in which case he probably does believe that he is the reincarnation of that endlessly articulate social commentator, Tupac Shakur - poor guy).

It is amazing that such an insanity is so widespread and so widely accepted…
But what other option is there for Charlie? In his mind, in his reality, what other options are there?
We must remember that reality is different and unique to us all. I do not know enough about Charlie’s life except that of it which was a part of mine, which is not a very large part. I cannot clearly or simply define his reality, I have but a picturesqe view into it resulting from my dealings with him.
So it is a question that will remain unanswered.
But just what is it in Charlie’s reality, in the Charlies of Amereica’s reality, that has made or is making him insane?

With enough willfull illusion Charlie will become “Hard-Ball” the dope slanger. He will probably go one to kill at least a few people in his lifetime (I at least know Charlie that well!), probably some junkies. He will probably be a threat to those around him, including me. He is willing to kill to befit his image. He will go so far that he has become “Hard Ball” in every way. He will answer to its name as does the madmen to the name of Jesus. He will speak the words of “Hard Ball” as does the madmen resite the Bible and the word of god.
Most examples are probably not this extreme. But many really do go this far or farther. When I have to worry about Charlie out there on the street trying to prove his badassness on me, it becomes a serious problem. Many do not grow out of it either. I know many still wanna bee gees in their late 20’s. 10 years of time spent in ones 20’s is enough time to cause alot of damage to ones self or to others.
So to me there is no difference between The Guy Who Says He’s Jesus who is treated as though he’s insane and Charlie, and the Charlies of America, who should also be treated as though they are insane.

But they are not treated accordingly and so I DO have to worry because most people are willing to look past the issue or to treat it mildy.

it is a part of basic human nature. wanting both to conform and be accepted and to make your own decisions about the kind of person you want to be is an expected part of growing up. when -you- grow up, you will be able to see it in context and understand it better.

what makes you think that you are all right and he is wrong? surely that’s the worst kind of bigotry? he and those like him live their life their own way and are happier for doing it, so leave them to it. and picture them thinking of your lifestyle in the way in which you think of theirs.

Is what we call insanity just a different way of thinking, defined as insanity through it being the minority? I mean if the majority of people had the mental state of what we presently call ‘insane’ would it still be considered insanity?

I couldn’t agree with Kjeevah more: one’s perceptions are totally based on one’s experience which is unique and individual, and therefore one must accept diversity as one accepts one’s self. So Bandit, it sounds like you should simply point your finger and laugh at conformity, not nessesarily call everyone who behaves like charlie, insane. Yes, its sad that there are people who are unwilling to free themselves from the idea that society has sold them. And further, there many more types of people who fall into charlie’s category as well.
You take Christianity for example. The “charlie insanity” works well to describe the people who ignorantly watch life pass them by, thinking they are serving a higher purpose. The point is, that life is the highest form of spirituality, and nature presents life to us. Its amusing to watch Christians take life for granted, while they deperately question thier fate out of fear. We as a human speicies don’t have the knowledge to conclude with certainty the nature of the after dealth experience, or the before life experience either. We simply have been given life, and all its possibilities. Why are people afraid to admit that there is the unknown, and that they are all in it. Why can’t people live life, and live it to the fullest accompanied with the absence of the post-life security. Its frustrating to me Bandit, thats all.

-Think

“So Bandit, it sounds like you should simply point your finger and laugh at conformity, not nessesarily call everyone who behaves like charlie, insane.”

Heres the thing, maybe you didn’t read my entire statement but I’ll make it clearer: It has gotten to where if I’m walking down the street and some Charlies in a car come driving by I have to worry about them fucking with me because I looked their way. They fantasize that I looked their way and challenged them. Then what? I’m forced to deal with these idiots. It has happened to me before. Simply pointing the finger and laughing is not enough to solve these problems in my reality, whereas it may in yours.

"it is a part of basic human nature. wanting both to conform and be accepted and to make your own decisions about the kind of person you want to be is an expected part of growing up. when -you- grow up, you will be able to see it in context and understand it better. "

Yes, Charlie is conforming and he wants to be accepted and to make his own decisions, but he’s not really making his own decisions. They are being dictated by the gangstah gee image or stereo-type. Its fine to want to make your own decisions but to let the stream of crap do it for you is another thing.

“what makes you think that you are all right and he is wrong? surely that’s the worst kind of bigotry?”
I’ll tell you what makes him wrong by restating what I have already said before: If Charlie is gonna harm or threaten me for walking down the street so that he can live his lifestyle-he’s wrong. I don’t fuck with Charlie-He fucks with me.

“he and those like him live their life their own way and are happier for doing it, so leave them to it. and picture them thinking of your lifestyle in the way in which you think of theirs.”
Saying that him and those like him are happier for doing it is a fantasy. They are not truly happy or fullfilled. They constantly have the blues. Believe me because I know many of them. Charlie pictures my life like this: How can I, me, my ego benefit from this person. He wont give in to me so I have to force him. I have to trample him and benefit my ego accordingly.

Insanity is not merely a mode of thinking as it is this: When one believes in that which is unreal. When one believes in fantasy.
Ex: Man in an insane aslyum who believes he is Jesus Christ and acts accordingly.
White guy named Charlie from small town who believes he is a part black guy named “Hard-Ball” who’s a boy from the hood and acts accordingly.

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If we accept reality “as it is” that is, if we accept that the insane people are recieving the same perceptile impulses than the rest of us, insanity becomes a whole different ball game.

Cases of delusion where their perceptile datum is different to ours (i.e. according to convential wisdom their brain is misleading them into believing things are there when they aren’t) their sensual reality is essentially different to ours and so does not apply to cases such as Charlie, the hard mutherF*****r.

In the case where they are getting the same data, we must then look at their logical reasoning, that has given them an idea that they are living in a different reality. We all have basic assumption in order to function well, many we do not even realised we have. For example the shadings on the picture we are constantly recieving from our eyes, and the difference from the two pictures from each eye, help us interpret those essentially 2D pictures as 3D (close one eye, u definatly are getting 2D data. Does it look like a 2D world however?)

People like Charlie have managed to delude themselves through fantasy, misjudgement and poor reasoning to convince themselves of a case that is not true. Their sense data is of exactly the same reality as ours. If we were to get a printout from his brain as to why he thinks he’s a gangsta we could pick his argument apart logically to show it inconsistent, and as such, a delusion.

Anyone trying to rely on arguments such as who’s to say whether we’re alll insane and he’s not are resting their case on weak ground. It will not help in the case where we assume same sensual reality (they are percieving the world the same as us) and if you accept that there are forms of logical argument.

So how is he any different from Jesus Christ? Well, the problem here is that Charlie’s assumption that he is a gangsta rests on such claims that he’s black (according to you, it’s a no) and a variety of other claims (here an interesting question is what are the characterisitics needed to become a gangsta? We are all assuming Charlie does not have them, but what are we assuming he does not have?). Jesus’ possible delusion rests on the assumption that he was the son of GOd. Now I’m no theologian, but if Jesus beleived he had talked to God, or believed that he had seen him or been influenced by him to give him extra knowledge, Jesus would clearly fall into the different sensual data category, and not misjudgement category that Charlie lives in. In a way he would have actually lived in a different reality than us, rather than misinterpreting the one he lives in.

This is all my own thoughts, and they’re very sweeping, and at times need a lot more reasoning.

^^ Interesting theory, but I’m not sure that this case needs such a deep analysis.

Charlie’s complexes have nothing to do with insanity. He may be deluding himself, yes, but he is theoretically capable of abandoning his delusion and accepting reality more or less as it is, where as someone suffering from insanity has little control over how they view certain things. An insane person may believe he is Jesus and cannot abandon that, as it is part of his “mental defect” (or whatever the PC euphamism for that phrase is) whereas Charlie, if given proper therapy, would be able to consciously abandon his delusion.

I am of course assuming there is a delusion there in the first place. It’s not for me to say whether he is genuinely a “playa” or not. He could well conform with the definition of a “gangsta”, but I think the thing most worth looking at is to decide why he has chosen to chase this mode of reality.

I look at American TV or listen to its music though, and it’s not suprising that lots of people seek to attain the same lifestyle that Charlie is at the moment. If you can become a “gangsta” then you, without any special gift, are able to acheive a lot of the elements that everyone seems to want out of life: money, power, respect and so on. You don’t have to study for it, you don’t have to work for it, all you have to do is adopt a certain persona and these things fall your way (if you’re lucky of course). It’s a shallow, materialistic culture, and by adopting the necessary persona, listening to the right music and wearing the right clothes, it allows individuals - usually those who have no other avenue of acheiving the things we all crave - to be instantly accepted into a group, and to attain the “respect” (fear or hatred would probably be more accurate) of those they come into contact with.

Charlie may not have any perceptual faults at all. He may well be “all dat”. He’s just simply the by-product of a disaffected youth culture, that seeks to promote individuality but ultimately just creates several different modes of conformity. For Charlie to adopt the “black” street culture is just simply his way of fitting in and searching for acceptance, while at the same time acheiving the respect he wants (as the culture he is conforming to is apparently tremendously "pimpin’ " in US society as a whole).

In some ways the rise of this rap culture could be viewed as a victory for race relations, where black-culture is now viewed as the “coolest” of all cultures - judging from music/clothing tastes over there - signifying the “respeck” the young now have for black people - it’s a far cry from a few decades ago anyway.

… and just reading back through this post makes me feel like a distanced 40 year old attempting to examine youth culture impartially. Time for some cocoa and straight to bed then I guess. :frowning:

In accordance with all arguments, you all are saying the same thing.

The person we all put out is the illusion we want to hide something or wish we had because it represents something that we want.

By all of your arguments, in a subtle way, everyone is insane. Nobody knows reality (which would mean that we have a twice screwed idea of truth) because the reality we see is but the reality we are comfortable with. And the reality we are comfortable with is but our illusions of life. And vice versa.

Charlie may consider you to be the insane one. And the madman Jesus could think everyone else insane.

So in the end, we all are insane. Even by our own perspectives.

  1. Insanity is a usually un-fixable abnoral state of mind–not a set of religious beleifs.

  2. Christians have good reasons for believing what they do (if you want to debate this, start another thread). Charlie has now very little control of his mind. He may have some, but if is truly insane, he pretty much cannot help fix himself.

  3. How the heck can you compare an insane gay person to a straight Christian? Why not compare a Christian to a Space Aleign(sp?)? :wink:

OK, your buddy isn’t nuts. He’s from A place where being a nice White kid from a regular home simply doesn’t have any identity or reality to it. Whiggers are the best aren’t they? Fun story for you. I went to college at Loyola in New Orleans. Orleans Parish is seventy percent black/creole. Next door Jefferson Parrish is like 90 percent white. Remember “white Flight” from your sociology primers? Well, Jefferson Parrish is A textbook example of this lovely phenomenon. Every kid out there is out there because their parents or grandparents moved there in the past 30 years. ANyway, enough context. In uptown New Orleans, there’s a street with like five bars in two blocks, lovely place. I was a touch drunk and walking by myself from one bar to another, a distance of about three blocks, tow of which are very dark blocks. As I’m going down the street, I see two shadows on my side of the street pissing into the bushes, right from the Sidewalk. I’m alert and trying to sidestep these fucks quietly. One of hears me, and turns, looks and says “Say, braw Why you gotta be lookin’ at a nigga when he’s pissin?” I’m thoroughly confused and say “First off, dude, you’re white. Secondly, I don’t give A fuck you’re pissing” The only thing the guy hears is “you’re white” and he responds " Damn right and proud of it. What’s a matter you gotta problem With that? " and starts hectoring me down the street. “you fucking with me? you wanna fight? I kick yor ass.” and various threats like that. I’m too drunk to fight really, so I keep walking. The fuck follows me for two blocks until he finally realizes I’m not going to throw the first punch and then he goes back to his friend.
The point? whiggerdom is a strange state, responsible for things as wonderful as white kids in Modified hyundai’s pumping out Master P and Mystikal, with a David Duke bumper sticker (Swear to God, I have seen this with My own eyes). I think that for the most part a few general things are happening. One, Whiggers are fundamentally racist parrots. This is just based on observation.I got no theory to back it up. Two, Black Culture is the most real thing in these kids’ lives and I think they gravitate to it for some place to stand. Three, Rap’s pretty cool and Black Culture IS very influential historically. White kids acting like the black underclass is a pretty old phenomena. Ever read Native Son?

Where I would be concerned If I were you is trying to figure out how to defend yourself amongst all the potential violence that seems to be in the air there where you live.

What if you just accepted Charlie as if he were a badass already? Do you like rap? If you did it would make it that much easier.

 As far as charlie's "homosexuality",  little kids Are basically polymorphously perverse and do that type of thing. It's pretty common and doesn't mean he's gay. Did you ever do any weird ass shit when you were little? What if you were held to it now?

Yes I fully agree. Children do not understand sex. I do not think sexuality can be talked about in children.

If it is, as I think you are suggesting, a flawed “logical” ability that qualifies a person as insane, (and not simply different sense-perceptions) we need good reasons to qualify a person’s logical ability as ‘flawed’.

I’m not completely comfortable right now with calling how Charlie acts the result of a flawed logical structure. I guess he interprets things differently, perhaps. But how he acts might be perfectly how he should be acting to get what he wants. And how you act gets you what you want (maybe its to be able to criticize Charlie).

I don’t think we can sit removed from our’selves’ and analyze someones behaviour in the way it has been done here. I think you’ve been analyzing behaviour from the framework of your own… and there is perhaps only the slightest difference.

Matt, are you saying a person can see things that aren’t there (only to him) and be perfectly sane. And that ‘insane’ is said about someone based on their ‘interpretive’ function? But both these things originate in the same organ. And why should one be held to higher standards of universality than the other? I was just thinking now, that it is meaningless to call someone insane, unless you believe there is some real, universal sort of sanity (and you should characterize it).

I don’t know if this makes sense… i’m really tired.